Franchise Pick

163 opinions for Will Auctioning4U Save the eBay Drop Off Franchise?

• Ralph
  May 27, 2007 at 12:12 am

  These guys are really misrepresenting the facts.

  They bought zero assets - its all bull. They bought a database of prospect leads. Plain and simply just a list of people who were interested in buying a franchise.

  Its really sad that people have to stupe this low to try and impress people with lies.

• Christian Braun
  May 28, 2007 at 5:34 am

  iSold It in the UK has spend millions to build a database of 5,500 potential franchisees and we bought it.

  There was some other stuff like desks and PCs that we did not need and somebody else bought from the adminstrator for a few thousands pounds. That was it, no other assets.

  We ensured that existing franchisees were freed of any obligations to the ultimate franchsisor in the US and as we for principle reasons were not interested in forcing them to join up are now being invited to transfer their businesses to the Auctioning4u brand.

  So where is the lie?

• cajmire
  May 28, 2007 at 11:21 am

  i dont agree with Ralph

  zero assets does not mean zero value- and in fact zero asstes probably doesn’t even mean zero assets. — It may very well mean a cheap price though.

  UPS Drop-off stores use this model also - but have not marketed themselves (from what I have seen).

  i’m going to wait a few months for an oppinion

• PJ
  May 28, 2007 at 2:29 pm

  Let’s see, I may only need a van. That means I would do a lot of running around all day for what, exactly? Revenue Sharing? We get to cut up the pennies of profit from each auction? and who gets the bigger percentage? The delivery person or the shop that actually does all the processing? Something is surely fishy with this model also. If it somehow cuts cost by 10%, then there would just be a smaller loss over time. I mean, 65 field experts and 40,000 square feet can’t be cheap…

• sean
  May 29, 2007 at 8:29 am

  Christian: Ralph has a point. Your press release title is “‘We’ve Bought It!’ - Auctioning4u Buys iSold It UK” not “Auctioning4u Buys iSold It UK lead database” The release states that your company “bought the assets of iSold it UK” and that “iSold it UK is the sixth acquisition for Auctioning4u…” You are quoted thanking “both the U.S and the UK iSold It teams for such a smooth handover.” Handover of a database?
  This press release is masterfully written old-school PR spin. This kind of approach may have worked in the pre-blogging era when such releases couldn’t be publicly analyzed, questioned & discussed, but not now. Especially with a concept as misrepresented and scrutinized as eBay drop-off stores, using less spin and more truth will have much better results.
  Ralph: In fairness to Auctioning4u, the misrepresentation could mean a bad PR firm and not intentional deception. Christian was honest with the extent of the purchase in his comments here. A lot of PR people haven’t caught on that spin like this doesn’t work anymore.
  PJ: Until we see the revenue model, we can’t know if it’s “fishy” can we? Acting as local sales agents works well for many independent reps in other businesses. Sales are generally rewarded more highly than the grunt work. Perhaps Christian will share the revenue model and fee split.

  Barely disguised self-promotion: If iSold It UK indeed spent millions generating 5500 franchise leads (more than $300 per lead), it’s understandable that they went into receivership. Before any of you spend millions recruiting franchisees, hire IdeaFarm to do your marketing plan. We could have saved iSold It UK a few million and had change left over to provide their franchisees with a strong local store marketing program.

• Christian Braun
  May 29, 2007 at 2:42 pm

  Sorry to keep to my story but we principaly bought all there was. If for example somebody would buy the Coca Cola brand and the Coca Cola formula I believe they principally bought Coca Cola. The equivalent here was the database.

  I suggest we move on and discuss the principles of the eBay drop-off model versus semantics. PJ got one thing right, it is not cheap to be in this business. It needs significant investment in people, facilities and software. That in turn means it needs scale, both at the back office and the front office, i.e. 100s if not 1,000s of items per month.

• sean
  May 30, 2007 at 8:15 am

  Moving on… How does the franchise model work? What are the franchisees’ responsibilities? How is the work, and revenue, divided between the franchise owners, the production center and the franchisor?

• Ralph
  May 31, 2007 at 2:10 pm

  Sorry to keep to my story but we principaly bought all there was……….This is another lie. The current stores are still in business and want nothing to do with Auction4me or what ever they call them selves.

  If for example somebody would buy the Coca Cola brand and the Coca Cola formula I believe they principally bought Coca Cola. The equivalent here was the database………………Misrepresenting the facts again. They did not buy the brand or the formula only a database of stale leads. The iSold It brand reverts to the franchisor in the USA and the current stores continue to use the brand.

  Infact rumor has it auction4u has received a cease and desist letter from the attorneys. What does Cristian have to to say now, only they will find them selves in the courts in the UK because they did not purchase any assets, the brand, any customers, nothing except a few chairs and a old list of prospects.

• Christian Braun
  May 31, 2007 at 11:41 pm

  Ralph,

  You are obviously an iSold It or former iSold It employee. Why don’t you identify yourself? And why do you get offensive?

  To be factional 3 of the 6 iSold It stores have now closed and you did not seem to have understood my Coca Cola example. iSold It in the UK is not a recognised brand and does not have a formula (it did not even have software), all it had was a database. And that database is everything else than stale, iSold It presented at one of the largest franchise shows and did company tours in March.

  I sincerely doubt that iSold It will be able to sell anymore franchisees in the UK.

• sean
  Jun 1, 2007 at 7:48 am

  Ralph: Point made. Let’s move on without personal attacks. I agree the Coke thing doesn’t track… however, if a bit of spin on a press release is the worst Auctioning4U is guilty of, they are the Bastion of Truth in this industry. Frankly, I’d be more worried if they HAD purchased the iSold It brand. Not exactly a desirable asset at this point.

  Christian: How does the local franchise work? How is work divided and how are the fees split? Does the efficiency of central processing really unburden the franchisees to the point where they can be profitable with more limited or focused roles?

• chance
  Jun 1, 2007 at 9:08 pm

  Okay, lets start at the beginning… first and foremost — business ideas, advertising, and definitions in ANY OTHER country, are not the same as in the US (one of the reasons some people have problems when they travel abroad).

  Second, Isoldit doesn’t have a system, they have a mess. Their software and its previous generations continues to be a nightmare for franchisees. Their “turnkey system” is NOT turnkey, and all that gets accomplished is the setting up of their overpriced store in the box.

  Third, the UK franchisees were left abandoned, with NOTHING more than a database (IF you want to call it that), but that’s all folks! So we might say that Auctioning4U stepped up to the plate to help out, when Isoldit did not, and for that Christian deserves a gold star!

  Now as for a winning ebay concept-that has yet to be proven, but at least Auctioning4U has not followed the crowd with a concept destined to die, and perhaps, just perhaps he has a better idea than those tried here in the states. I have spoken to Christian on many turns and will tell you that his system is considerably different than any that have been tried here in the US (including the dying Auctiondrop at the UPS stores). So before you judge this struggling business, get ALL the facts (okay Ralph), and you might just find out how pitiful the US franchisors are!

• chance
  Jun 1, 2007 at 9:15 pm

  PS If you really want to see the lack of truth in advertising and misrepresentations - go to Isoldit’s website!

• Ralph
  Jun 1, 2007 at 10:14 pm

  I make some very factual points about the stores that transfered are still in business and cannot be considered a failure. Further some of them were were purchased for good money and based on profitability.

  But my post was pulled. It appears that CENORSHIP comes in when the story does not go the way the owner of this site wants it too - so what other posts gave been pulled?

  This is hardly an open Blog now that posts are being pulled.

• sean
  Jun 2, 2007 at 11:41 am

  Ralph: Your post wasn’t pulled & comments aren’t censored on this site. That’s a fact. If you ever have a concern in that regard email me directly (sean[at]ideafarm.net). In the last 5 months I have personally deleted 5500 spam comments submitted. If a legit comment isn’t posted it could have been deleted by mistake.

  Ralph, I’m sorry for whatever you’ve gone through to put you into this state of agitation, but just lashing out at everyone is hardly going to aid a rational exchange of ideas and information. Settle down.

• Ralph
  Jun 2, 2007 at 12:59 pm

  Second, Isoldit doesn’t have a system, they have a mess. Their software and its previous generations continues to be a nightmare for franchisees……..

  Chance lacks knowledge and only listens to negative people. iSold It now uses a world class award winning software platform and can hardly be called a mess.

  Awards & Recognition
  Oracle-on-Demand Customer Advisory Board
  eBay Star Developer 2004 and 2005
  eBay Certified Solution Provider
  eBay Advanced Solutions Program
  eBay Developer’s Program Member
  Top Performer – Marketing Experiments Journal

  High-level Companies Find Infopia’s Higher Ground
  Elevating your business is an individual feat—yet one that scores of companies have accomplished with Infopia. And customers aren’t the only ones to tout the strengths of Infopia. Dozens of top industry leaders partner with Infopia, including: Salesforce.com, eBay, Overstock.com, Amazon.com, Yahoo!, Shopping.com, Shopzilla, Froogle, Google, Overture, Oracle, UPS, FedEx, and USPS.

• chance
  Jun 2, 2007 at 2:24 pm

  Ken, oops I mean Tim, or is it Ralph, it is time to grow up and see the reality of things. Here are some of your own forum threads indicating just a FEW of the problems infopia and isoldit have! And I could go on for hours…

  “How come in being on 3.0 for just a 2 weeks now this is the second major “system down” time we have experience?

  You said you have addressed the issue concerning items getting stuck in RTL. When are you going to fix the problem with SAM putting up multiple listings of the same item?

  From reading the Forum, it doesn’t appear SAM 3.0 is any better, same headaches that you have to actually pay for now.

  Re: Can I have my money back?
  Anyone else experienceing 2-4 minute screen reloads?

  I have to go back to trying to list things on a system that keep going down, answering questions from people who can’t check out, relisting items that are stuck in RTL, etc, etc, etc,etc….

  I am a franchise owner and have put everything I have into this business. I have been reading the forums and even reading the ISI forums and know that I have to get out of this business. Oh, I think I should tell you, I bought this store from someone else.
  We have done everything right. We are in a perfect location, have taken in thousands of high ticket items…..but we are now using our retirement funds to keep going. It is impossible to be successful! We were suckered into X franchises….so we could protect our “area”. We have finally realized that we cannot succeed….cannot make back our investment…..can’t emotionally or physically continue. Plus, we don’t have unlimited funds. “

  YEP, IT IS STILL A MESS! And that is exactly WHY the owners are trying to sell out-NOT ONE is making money on any consistant basis (except thoses selling off the books-ie: cars!)

  And Sean, I hope you do delete the smut and sales pitches! I have not known you to ever censor the truth, like the Isoldit forum does!

• sean
  Jun 3, 2007 at 9:17 am

  Ralph: We searched all comments, including those deleted as spam. You’ve submitted 4 comments and all were posted. Nothing you’ve submitted has been pulled. Perhaps you didn’t hit the “Submit” button. Feel free to resubmit.

• Ralph
  Jun 3, 2007 at 10:01 am

  This blog is really boring with people making half truths. Plus I see that people are taking info from a companies private Intranet system and posting them on public websites.

  If the owner of this site condones this behavior then it is very clear that he is more interested in selling banner ads. I believe we have the National Inquirer and Jerry Springer who feeds off the same sort of thing.

  Some day the Internet will grow up and people will be held respondsible for slandering others.

  No matter what people add here it will just be twisted around over and over again.

  Boring stuff - over and out I have a store run.

• the truth is out there
  Jun 4, 2007 at 3:13 pm

  ralph is spot on :

  Ralph
  May 27, 2007 at 12:12 am

  These guys are really misrepresenting the facts.

  They bought zero assets - its all bull. They bought a database of prospect leads. Plain and simply just a list of people who were interested in buying a franchise.

  Its really sad that people have to stupe this low to try and impress people with lies.

  Answer:

  They are probably out of money and want to raise more money.

• Christian Braun
  Jun 4, 2007 at 11:17 pm

  This post was meant to be about “Could regional, centralized processing work for eBay Drop-off franchises in the US?” Since the decentralised model does not work as evidenced by the closure of iSold It in the UK, this could be an important discussion.

  Both Auctioning4u and iSold It employees join in the discussion. Contrast the difference: I openly represent Auctioning4u, iSold It uses two pseudonyms. The first is offensive, avoids the subject of the blog, claims censorship and when “Ralph” feels that he looses the argument just says this blog is “boring”. Enter the second that simply repeats the first’s argument with no additional information. Maybe these blog entries should be censored out.

  I liked the former iSold It executives in the UK but am glad that I do not have to work with those in the US.

• Ralph
  Jun 4, 2007 at 11:57 pm

  Christian
  It all started with your slander statements and misrepresentations about buying something you did not buy. That is very unprofessional.

  We all hear that your company is having financial issues.

  Its my understanding the iSold It stores in the UK were only open for a few months so thats hardly proof of concept.

  Auctiondrop and many others have tried the centralized structure and failed so its just a matter of time with your model.

  There is not enough margin in each deal to be able to share/split deals between two different companies or your company and your agents. Who can make a living under this structure. 50% of 40% of $90.00. $15.00 for all that work you will lose your agent base very quickly or they will just do it them selves.

  It you have to lie and stretch the truth who know what else is behind the curtain with your company.

• Christian Braun
  Jun 5, 2007 at 12:08 am

  So why don’t you come clean and say who you are?

• Rus
  Jun 5, 2007 at 6:11 am

  Here’s the truth:

  Plain and simple. Selling on eBay IS NOT about the software, it’s not about the customers or your reputation as a “respected seller”, not about what you sell, or the value of what you sell. It’s all about the understanding of “Pop Culture” - which is something you can NOT franchise. Some people have the knack - MOST do NOT. The franchising of eBay Dropoffs is very deceptive. The other aspect to success of a business - do customers feel like they get their money’s worth? What customer feels good about a 50/50 split? (Sometimes 60/40- in favor of the dropoff) The ONLY customer a dropoff serves is one who has no equity whatsoever in their inventory - which usually a failed business or government institution - IE - the REASON for the failed business or liquidation.

• sean
  Jun 5, 2007 at 7:45 am

  Anyone interested in discussing possible solutions, strategies, ideas for making this concept viable? It’s not as fun as bickering, but there are smart people here, some of the leaders in the industry. Why not work together to generate some new ideas, test some theories, compare notes? If the drop-off concept can’t be made viable, won’t you all fail?

  Christian: Once again, how does the local franchise work? How is work divided and how are the fees split? Does the efficiency of central processing really unburden the franchisees to the point where they can be profitable with more limited or focused roles?

  Ralph: What are your remaining iSold It store owners doing to create awareness? Drive sales? Control costs? What’s working? Do you provide them with a strong local store program? Are they implementing it?

  Rus: You say the only customer a dropoff serves is one who has no equity whatsoever in their inventory. It’s a good point. What if the model was donated goods, new and used, for charity? The company or individual gets the write-off, charity gets the cash & the drop-off gets the percentage needed to be profitable?

  There are a lot of individuals out there still trying to make a go of it, their homes on the line. I’m sure they’d appreciate some fresh perspective. The old way’s not working. Anyone willing to focus on what MIGHT work?

• the truth is out there
  Jun 5, 2007 at 2:34 pm

  Who will save Auctioning4u ? With all this talk about Auctioning4u being in financial trouble. Why doesn’t Christian deny it ? Is it true ? Ralph where did you hear the rumours ?

• chance
  Jun 5, 2007 at 3:34 pm

  Sean:
  Many of the franchisees are afraid of being reprimanded by their franchisors if they speak out (like Ralph?!?). Also, ego also plays a big part at keeping some from telling what is really going on. Unfortunately this concept has too many flaws and little to no positive points. Most likely the reason for so few responses to winning ideas, is that eBay already has a forum for powersellers (the only real success story). However, it is certainly worth exploring the ideas being tried in Australia and the UK because the US concept is a losing proposition!

• Christian Braun
  Jun 7, 2007 at 11:33 pm

  For the record Auctioning4u is not in financial trouble.

  On the economics: There is an agreed split for each item that comes in with our Territory Partners doing marketing and accepting items (using our analytical tools) and Auctioning4u doing the rest. The system works, but we prefer to go into specifics with potential Territory Partners versus publishing them here.

• John Lockwood
  Jun 9, 2007 at 11:46 am

  I have been in the eBay business for close to 10 years. Starting 2 years ago, I analyzed the eBay drop off store model here in the US. Looking at the numbers, it was apparent that the overhead costs where too high for the business to be successful. I decided to tweak the model and remove as much of the overhead as possible. The end result is a system that is similar in many ways to the auction4u model. I believe if any eBay drop off model can be successful, this is it.

• The UPS Store PLUS The eBay Drop-Off Store Equals…?
  Jun 12, 2007 at 11:19 am

  […] Related Stories: Will EasySale Reinvent the eBay Drop-Off Store Concept?Will Auctioning4U Save the eBay Drop Off Franchise? […]

• Colin Baynard
  Jun 16, 2007 at 10:25 am

  Hello Everyone,
  I can speak only an independent operator, with 40 years professional selling experience.
  The US & UK markets are quite different, mainly due to the individual mind set. (we think different) With eBay changing the UK/US visibility they have almost ruined the business. There are a lot of UK sellers who rely on eBay for a living, such sellers are now facing troubled times. Sellers are downgrading & even shutting up eBay Shops, soon I am sure that many will be deserting the website.
  Up to August 2006 eBay was good since then in the UK we have seen a major decline in business, all brought about by changes in the eBay system.
  No buyers = NO sellers.
  No matter who is working eBay, individual or group we are ALL solely in the hands of eBay, who at the flick of a switch can and have turned the world upside down.

  I know Christian Braun, Auctioning4u & he is no con man, far from it, he is a clever man and dedicated totally to the business. I am sure he believes as we do that the eBay drop-off business can & does work. (I however don’t believe that the Franchise scenario can work, as the percentage margins are just not there). The Franchise business type could work if every item sold generated £100 and 10 + sales could be made every day.
  Selling on eBay with a level playing field for all, on a world market is all about numbers. Without high value items that actually do sell along with a steady flow of such items then we have no chance. Selling low or high value items takes the same time & efforts, with low value items the costs are high & the return is low or in most instances a negative which have actually cost the seller money. In this business we need a larger percentage of high value items that sell.
  Thanks to eBay marketing the public are under the impression that they can sell junk. Fine is you are working from your kitchen table, but disaster if you have invested in premises and have business overheads. At one time eBay was simple to operate and represented excellent value for money. Now the opposite is fact, yet eBay still preach it is as easy as 1 2 3.
  As with any business even selling Burgers from a barrow on the street, if you don’t know what you are doing it is a tough world & most are doomed before they start. In our area alone I have seen 4 other similar drop off business set up and close down within weeks.
  Selling for others on eBay can work, but not stood alone, as we need other irons in fire. I believe that I have the solution for this by bringing the needs of everyone wanting to dispose of items into the 21st century. I have been working towards that goal for over 3 years. I know the formula works, as it is already working, in every corner of the world, just not in the way that I can see it work best.
  All I can say for now is this ‘Before the supermarket we had 100s of little shops, with shop keepers getting on with their day. Our ancestors went from shop to shop to buy their items, the butchers, bakers and the candlestick makers. Then the supermarket came along and it has changed the way we all shop.
  As I say I know my vision will work.

• Colin Baynard
  Jun 17, 2007 at 2:05 am

  Hello Everyone,
  Thank you Sean for accepting my previous point of view.

  No-one can compare this business with a Dry Cleaning or any other Franchise that requires specialist knowledge.
  Look, you take your suit into the cleaners, you pay the fee, and then you call back whenever and pick up your cleaned garment. You have paid for an excepted service and have received the expect result = the cleaned garment.

  Centralisation processing is just one route but involves extra costs in transport. With several different people handling the client’s items, the items can easily get misplaced, broken, lost or even stolen in the processes. Extra administration / process costs each and every time the item is handled. We all know the clients will only stand some charges and in some instances we can pass a charge onto the buyers, but they do not like that.
  Communication is always a major problem with selling on eBay, this must be a real nightmare between the ALL the different parties involved in the central processing formula. (Not pointing the finger at anyone, but you only need to look at the negative feedback comments to prove those theories correct)

  In principle with the drop-off business the clients take their “Valuable Stash” into the store and after some days collect the cash. Sounds very simple, I am sure everyone in this forum knows selling on eBay, either for yourself and more so for others is far from easy. I am sure we all have had some amazing results for our clients and some disasters; such is the nature of the volatile eBay marketplace. Remember you could have the best working model in the world but we are all reliant on eBay with its ever changing goalposts.

  Selling items on eBay the expected result can have several outcomes for many reasons, all depending on the item and the market place demand. Still your clients expect a good result, and very few are aware of the precious time given to every item, in order to get any result, even a zero.
  Most clients (in the UK) have a preconceived idea about the value of their Stash.
  The client’s main interested is how much it will cost them to sell using your services.

  I am positive after monitoring the many ‘eBay’ Franchisees over the past 4 years few have little knowledge about this business and NO Franchisor can teach you, NONE have the proven formula. (Yet) Offering this service type if far removed from any Franchise selling Burgers, Pizza or Dry Cleaning.
  This business requires specialist knowledge at every corner, as every item we handle is different also every client has a different mind set.

  To acquire the knowledge it takes years of hands on experience and even then you learn more as every day passes. That experience cannot be taught as such, but it can be shared to a degree. That is where our software management program differs from all the others that I have previewed.

  The we-bay-4u software has been built hands on by ourselves, over 3 years, using decades of knowledge and is capable of sharing the basic and specialist knowledge required. I am not claiming here that we have a full data base, but we do have the first chapter.
  As I have claimed in my previous correspondence on the forum, I do have the vision on how this business will work as a franchise; it must appeal to everyone for our 21st Century lifestyles. In turn it will franchise to 1000s of people all over the world. I will talk to anyone interested confidently on a non disclosure basis. The McDonalds Empire started 5 decades ago with a salesman Ray Kroc, he had foresight and a vision, the rest is history.

• sean
  Jun 17, 2007 at 1:49 pm

  Colin:
  You make some good points about the nature of the business, but you’re missing an important point about Ray Kroc. The McDonald Brothers opened a BBQ restaurant in 1940. In 1948, they closed and revamped it and reopened as McDonald’s. They franchised in 1953. Ray Kroc didn’t get involved until 1954 and didn’t take over until 1961.

  Kroc had more than foresight and vision: he had a working, proven, profitable prototype to franchise. Kroc focused on implementation and duplication of an already successful system.

  Software is not a business. It’s software. You franchise businesses, not a “vision.” Your claim that “it will franchise to 1000s of people all over the world” sounds eerily familiar to those who lost their investments & houses buying “visions.”

  Franchising is about duplicating a proven, successful, established system, not getting people to invest in an idea and then trying to figure it out as you go along.

  Sorry if that sounds harsh but, hey, you got to plug your software!

• Colin Baynard
  Jun 18, 2007 at 1:01 am

  Hi Sean,
  Thank you for your reply.
  I am aware about Ray Kroc & the actual working restaurant model. The McDonald Bros adapted the working practices of a large commercial kitchen; each staff member has his station and particular job.

  My point is that the eBay drop off store will struggle on its own back, no matter how the items are processed. The eBay changes over the past 12 months have resulted in poor sales, the Powersellers are not happy; business is down for many by 50% or more. International sales are next to nothing. Many sellers are shutting up or downgrading their eBay shops / stores. We downgraded our eBay shop some months ago & in recent weeks have removed over 300 items. Selling all sorts as we do on eBay requires specialised knowledge which really cannot be thought, we have software that has the capability of sharing that knowledge.
  But my idea is not all about or solely based on the software as you say ‘Software is not a business’ Bill Gates may not agree though.

  My idea is already working in every town and city in the world in some form or another. My vision will fulfil all the needs of anyone wanting to turn their ‘Stash into Cash’ in the 21st century. I cannot reveal much more as I am talking to possible investors at present. Unlike the eBay drop off concept, that appears quite a simple to most people in general, what I have in mind will only appeal to certain people; in the UK alone we have several hundred ready made prospects. I have almost everything in place and can have a working model within weeks for less cost than a ISI franchise. To continue we just need the investor or for our eBay sales to rocket over the next 3 or 4 months.

  Christian Braun in the UK and Dave Edmondson in the USA both appear to have one thing in common, a big pile of money to work with and I wish them the best of luck. It is easy to see that Christian is turning big money on eBay, but as for profitability I cannot comment. Any operation working in London and the South of England is expensive, wages are higher and business premises are excessive.
  Dave in the USA, will discover that the client’s perception for the items they have for sale is generally way over estimated. Therefore (speaking from VAST experience) it is impossible to offer any valuations over a phone line.

  I have the deepest sympathy for all who have lost money in this business, both franchisees and independents. I blame eBay and the Franchisors they should both take part responsibility as eBay preach and have everyone believing that selling on eBay is as easy as 1 2 3. The Franchisors just ride alongside on the same bus.
  Selling as a business on or off line is not easy for most people, using and relying on eBay as a sales platform is now far from easy, even with experience.

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 4, 2007 at 8:48 pm

  Is anybody still reading this page?

  I am an ex-employee, and I’m happy to identify myself. However I’m not from Isoldit, I’m from Auctioning4u.

  Hugh Walter - Ex-’head’ of Toys and collectables. A hollow title, that was redundant within weeks of my being head-hunted by Christian, a man I had considered a friend.

  Ralph - you started well but got er…over excited, or over emotional?

  Christian - You probably shouldn’t have got involved at all, if you’re walking by a bees nest, don’t cover yourself in honey. Particularly when it has such a bitter after-taste.

  Rus (and Colin among others) - Your point is the most valid. eBay started life as a collectables site and grew to include all second hand goods, antiques and such like. While some people are doing well with new production, in my opinion (which must have counted for something when CB was so keen to get me on board), eBay will ultimately return to ‘old stuff’ and collectables, as the 21st century’s high street goes on-line, with in-house or hosted web pages served by huge regional distribution centres. But this is a global process that will take 10/15 (maybe 50?) years to pan out, and in the meantime it’s a bit of a ‘wild west’ out there, with the bigger franchisers only in it for sort term gain. You can’t use the big warehouse model when everyone can have their own eBay page and cut costs over dealing with you, the big warehouse.

  A4U as several contributors have suggested, is not as ‘healthy’ as some would have you believe. Oh - the books look OK, but that’s only because ‘Angels’ and investors are keeping it afloat with regular injections of cash. Ralph was correct to suggest that the heads of these company’s are old-school pre-blogosphear types, it’s all about money - other peoples money.

  You have the pressure of investors breathing down your neck, so what do you do? You find a struggling or crippled rival and buy ‘the assets’. This is probably half a van load of second hand pc’s, some tables and chairs and a small server, all of which are on eBay by the end of the week , plus a list of addresses (wow!) you can add to you outgoing spam file! you can then show the investors a veneer of ‘growth’.

  You will notice if you go to the page where A4U explain the takeover (sorry - rescue!), that they only seem to have carried 4 of the 30 odd franchisees with them, and a disclaimer at the bottom of the page says don’t bring your Isoldit problems to us we’re not dealing with them, some support that is. As to the other 26 odd shops, perhaps one of them would like to contribute.

  But then Christian, who shouldn’t have posted the above to start with (in my own personal opinion, of course! - his Rottwieler from HR, well; yappy-dog, has already threatened me with a liable suit!!) knows that ultimately the model is flawed, and the flaw is overheads. If he hadn’t recognised that fact he wouldn’t be putting so much effort into Toymart, his pet (single issue) project. A single issue platform stands a much better chance of succeeding. However Vectis (all power to their elbow) were there first, are bigger, and aren’t reliant on city money, so ultimately, Toymart could go the same way as all the others, as even A4U will, and that’s down.

  I should explain at this point that my ‘brief’ was to grow the Toy/Collectables arm of A4U bigger than Vectis in 18 months, but following a vist to Toymart several weeks into my post, I was left out on a limb, and CB was doing his own thing.

  Colin may know Christian, but I know him better, and while he is a charmer, I now wouldn’t trust him to tie my shoelaces. If you have something he thinks he wants, needs or can make use of, he will flatter you to death and then - snake like - swallow you whole, once he’s finished with you he will suck you dry and leave you swinging in the breeze. But to be fair, he is old-school, and to him “it’s just business, and I’m a businessman”. That is the rub Ralph is smarting from, that’s what poisoned my relationship with him, that’s why ‘going for lunch’ with Christian became an ironic reference to having your desk cleared by someone else! (in that respect I was lucky - I made it back from lunch and had 3 hours to clear my own desk, bargain!). Ask the guy who went for lunch with CB to discuss A4U using his own personal website, something he was unwilling to go along with, he never came back. Ask the joint owners of Auctionicity, there were - I believe - performance issues, but they went for lunch and never came back either.

  No the general emotion articulated above, stands the test of examination, some ruthless city type guys are trying to make a fast buck out of a new (what? business model? technology? no…) phenomena, and in the last 18 months a lot of them have begun to get their fingers burnt.

  Look at A4U’s purchases, mostly half dead and keen to find a buyer, any buyer. Auctioning4u will ultimately be swallowed by the next guy. look at at an old internet guide or textbook, you will find no mention of Google in the list of search engines. When I say an old book I mean published up to 4 or 5 years ago, Yahoo are there, along with a bunch of company’s we’ve half forgotten, it’ll be the same with drop-shops.

  You have to feel for the franchisees, who stand to lose more, having started with less. The way to make money on eBay is to find your subject, know your subject, and work twice as hard as you could afford to pay someone else, and you will make money. You will build up return customers, who will use your eBay shop, with fixed prices and you will learn who you can approach (don’t tell eBay!) with off-eBay offers, saving time and money.

  All eBay has shown is that whether you are dealing in model dogs or diamonds, nothing is ‘that’ rare, and on most things, even the rare Timpo Toys Viking archer with blue shield, has found the lowest common denominator vis-a-vis price, and broadcast it to the rest of the world

  I think I’m waffling now, so I will stop! Don’t give up hope, but steer clear of the big boys, they will eventually be found in hell somewhere between equity investors and double-glassing salesmen!!!

• sean
  Jul 4, 2007 at 9:29 pm

  “Is anybody still reading this page?”

  Yes

• chance
  Jul 4, 2007 at 10:05 pm

  Yes, we are still here!

• Colin Baynard
  Jul 5, 2007 at 1:06 am

  Hi Hugh,
  Well voiced & your opinions I am sure are well founded with your own personal experiences. Christian is lucky he has found ‘Investors’ money to play with. As we all know investments can go either way. Only time will tell, Mother nature always comes out on top. If it was not for the likes of Edision’s, Wright Bros, Ford’s etc the World as we know it today would be a very different place. We are no different today we are the pioneers & doing something that we believe in.
  In recent weeks we have all discovered to our detriment the major flaw in this business type, no matter how we process our client’s items for sale. The BIGGEST flaw is relying on eBay as the sales platform, as eBay have put up barriers and boarders, from being an unrestricted free world trade area, eBay has become a dictatorship. We all know Dictatorships have their run, but do not work.
  If you check out the Auctionbytes link below you may find out this view is shared by the vast majority of the eBay Community.
  I am sure once the regular press get a grip of the story they will have a field day.

  http://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2007/7/1183405069.html

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 5, 2007 at 4:53 am

  Thanks Colin

  The eBay thing - as I see it - was always there, yes, when big business/big money got involved, eBay accommodated them with the whole trading partner/power seller thing. But that was just shrewd business, they already had that ‘functionality’ built in because they would have been expecting some eBayers to have the energy/inclination to sell a shit load of items over a year or two. Likewise the software guys quickly found ways of exploiting/supplying the eBay community with fast load and office management systems.

  It also meant that people who might otherwise have set up rivals to the fledgling eBay, were happy instead to stay trading on eBay, until ebay had an unassailable position. Case in point is the roughly contemporaneous QXL. Now I don’t know the full history of QXL but they clearly lacked the vision and/or funding of eBay, and if you go on there now, they have about as many items as Toymart, or some regional auction room on a Saturday morning and half of that is porn!

  In other words, eBay have done a Google. A4U would like to do likewise (in the uk at least) but they can’t because eBay are there already, and short term problems with eBay as described by people in the link you gave, will not kill eBay in the long term, nor in my opinion weaken it sufficiently for somebody like A4U or it’s little subsidiary Toymart to make serious inroads. That’s why Vectis continue with their live auctions several times a month, what CB would call a multi-platform model.

  My main point was that ebay is still a fine concept, it just isn’t for large organisations, and some are wakening up to that fact. I have helped other people with eBay for several years now, yet have only been buying myself in the last few months, yet not only have I managed to get some fine bargains off some good people (most have made money for the seller, if only a quid or two on the postage), I am also about to start selling, and can hardly wait. I’m keen, very keen, because I can see it working. It just requires as few overheads as possible, and a bit of graft.

  The problem with all these big operators was/is they thought they were going to make big money, fast, selling ‘junk’. And they didn’t, they don’t. You are right to say Christian is ‘playing’ with the investors money, what happens when they smell the coffee, wake up and look at the books? there is no other A4U or Isoldit to buy the ‘assets’ there are one or two smaller operators around - I haven’t followed Auctionassit’s progress, but I got the impression they were shrewd enough not to want the dregs of A4U when they become available, assuming that Auctionassist aren’t by then equally struggling?

  This is a page for Franchising, my message is - with ebay - don’t. We had franchises pull out at the last minute, franchises that became staff! and franchises that never happened, A4U have clearly cut the Isoldit guys loose, or let them swing in the breeze, and it’s just not worth the gambol with one’s own money. You want to trade on ebay? get a small cheap off-high street shop, or a little unit on a trading estate, get a career development loan and do your own thing! if you want a second revenue stream, try helping other ‘newbies’ with set-up advise once you know what you’re doing and have been doing it for a while.

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 6, 2007 at 2:28 pm

  Strange thing happened on the way to the truth, found I couldn’t use this link at the top of the page under ‘related stories’?

  eBay Drop-Shop Auctioning4u Signs Second Franchise

  Then found I couldn’t use this link either (top right of page)

  AUCTIONING4U

  Oh it got weirder - if I use the full URL (which I book marked yesterday) in my google toolbar I still can’t get through to that page.

  OK… I think to myself… I will use one of the two links in the email I’ve received telling me there are two replies to the post I left on that page, yet -you’ve guessed it - they don’t work either.

  Now maybe that page is ‘down for maintenance’?
  I do know that Sean has allowed above, much stronger comments than any I’ve made, so I must assume that he isn’t blocking me, therefore one arrives at the rather paranoid conclusion that a third party is interfering with this site in order to render the debate one sided.

  No matter, bear with me, I know the nature of one of the two replies to my post on that other page, so I will deal with it here. I hope you all have no objection and perhaps the other replier can post his comments here, as I still seem able to use this page.

  A quick recap of the other page for those not following it;

  An apparently nice couple have taken over the Auctioning4u shop in Manchester, A4U press released it as a second franchise. ‘Ralph’ pointed out that it was in effect a transfer, not a new franchise, ‘Chance’ then had a go at Ralph, so I had a go at her, went on to wish the new people luck, pointed out that A4U were being a bit ‘Crowing’ without much to crow about. I then asked some serious (and valid) questions about store numbers vis-a-vis iSold It, questioned the disappearance of the ‘Takeover’ page and pointed out that Auction Assist seem to be doing something better than A4U or iSold It.

  The reply I received by email, was from Trevor Ginn at A4U, and only dealt with the Auction Assist part of my post. To wit: That calculated by eBay sales, Auction Assist was smaller than A4U.

  I would not argue with Trevor’s figures, however the fact remains that since we (they, A4U) became aware of them at the International Toy Fair, EXCEL, Jan. 2006, Auction Assist have built a nationwide network of Franchised? stores, without making a lot of noise, without loosing stores in the numbers iSold It apparently did, and are in a position Auctioning4u are still only talking about being in - one day. Yes, their figures may well be lower than A4U’s but their model may well have overheads so much lower than A4U that they could be making more actual money? They may be selling under more than one name (other drop shops do, eh? fashion?), they may have revenue streams you don’t know about, they may have an arrangement with eBay? they may be doing the sensible thing and taking it steady with slow measured growth?

  The point I’m making is that you can’t judge your opposition, simply by following their eBay sales?

  It would be nice to have someone from AA post some comments of their own, as they could equally be in the same financial arena that iSold It was, or pedalling a vision like A4U. But from the limited available evidence they seem to be on top of this whole mess.

  And researching the whole phenomena as I have this last few days, it’s clear it IS a mess, in the UK, in the US and elsewhere. And I speak as someone who believed the hype a year ago.

  It must be noted that apart from Trevor’s comment on the other page (which I’ve just tried getting to again - no dice) no one from A4U has answered a single question or salient query, as put to them by any of the other post’ers on either this or the other page, yet they (A4U) posted both stories! On this page Christian even evaded direct questions from Sean, hasn’t explained the revenue split and just spouts ‘Newspeak’ like he was born to it, and I quote;

  “On the economics: There is an agreed split for each item that comes in with our Territory Partners doing marketing and accepting items (using our analytical tools) and Auctioning4u doing the rest. The system works, but we prefer to go into specifics with potential Territory Partners versus publishing them here.”

  That was given in reply to this question from Sean

  “Once again, how does the local franchise work? How is work divided and how are the fees split? Does the efficiency of central processing really unburden the franchisees to the point where they can be profitable with more limited or focused roles?”

  And is - in my opinion - a mealy-mouthed worms answer.

  Sean, could you look into my apparent blocking from the other page. If I can’t get on to it by Monday a press release muttering darkly about censorship, and people with things to hide trying to sell franchises, along with the relevant URL’s will be on the cards.

  Toodle pip!

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 6, 2007 at 4:40 pm

  Hi All -

  Apologise profusely for above, Friday mad moment coupled with blockage in cyberspace…

  …or was it?… “doo do doo do…”

• chance
  Jul 6, 2007 at 4:58 pm

  Hey Hugh, the internet at times can be black magic. Hope your weekend is better.

• sean
  Jul 6, 2007 at 7:32 pm

  Hugh: Sorry if you had problems posting and/or finding a page. I’m on the road at the moment & only had a chance to skim your last few comments, which I’m planning to revisit.
  But to clarify: there’s no censorship of comments or posts whatsoever on the site, other than keeping personal addresses, phone #’s from being posted by others. I work with franchisors and franchisees, but have no agenda other than promoting (and provoking) honest & open dialogue and debate.

  You should also know that I have limited technical control of this site. I can’t “block” anything. FranchisePick.com is owned and maintained by b5media network which has an incredible team of technicians who maintain the software for 200+ interconnected blogs. They have no ties to the franchise industry or any of these companies or issues.

  Cruise the site and read the other issues discussed. My ulterior motive is to get issues debated, both sides represented, and have the battle at my place.

  Speak your mind! If you ever have problems posting, email me directly at info[at]ideafarm.net. Thanks for your contributions!

• LondonEye
  Jul 10, 2007 at 3:00 pm

  Auctioning4u has now shut down alls its franchises and shops.

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 13, 2007 at 3:29 am

  So, a sad day for those who work in those shops and franchises, and having had words about Christian’s crowing over iSold It’s demise, I will try not to do likewise.

  However, I would say that hopefully this is a small example (almost insignificant in global terms) of how the internet (or Wibbly Wobbly Way as my Brother calls it!), will - is starting to - change the way the ‘real’ world operates. In time the ‘Old Guard’ will understand that we want real truths, real justice and real democracy, and that peddling lies will become a thing of the past.

  Auctioning4u were peddling a dream, and as all about her floundered, she continued to believe that she was different, when in fact she was the same, another level (the warehouse) just meant higher overheads, the fact that the overheads were less than some rivals is immaterial, unless you are the person trying to get city funding, in which case showing a differential in figures, must make it easy for one greedy man to get money out of other greedy men - it’s always men!)

  This business idea/model can only work - in my own personal opinion - if you operate from/as a single seller/premises and work hard.

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 13, 2007 at 4:35 am

  Re-above, teach me to check the facts!

  Nothing on Goggle to back up Londoneye’s claim, and his link seems to be an undeveloped news site from around the time of our getting the Olympics - 2003?

  And the shops are open today (13th), so news of their demise somewhat exaggerated I fear!! Nothing to do with putting people off the scent I’m sure, it will only encourage us to follow it more closely!

  Comments stand as ‘Prebiturary’, as it’s only a matter of time!

• Colin Baynard
  Jul 13, 2007 at 4:36 am

  Hi Hugh,

  Your personal opinion as in my view is 101% correct along with some good luck & 26 hour day’s are required.

  Then just when you think you have the Magic Formula & all is going well eBay change to goal posts, as what happened to us over the past 3 months. I am sure A4U have also experienced the same eBay mega bite. For many core eBay sellers, business has ground to a halt.

  The only business sellers that appear to be doing well selling on eBay are a handful of specialised operators selling brand new imported Chinese made goods, but from many that I have been monitoring over the past 10 years all such sellers come & go. I have not quite figured out why this happens, but I can presume with internet selling being a vast consumer of time the costs eat up any profits as the market place gets flooded the prices drop.

  Hugh if we get together sometime I would like to share some personal views on how this business can work as a bolt on, we could also write a book.

  In answer to the Header question “Will Auctioning4U Save the eBay Drop Off Franchise”? It looks like the answer is NO.

  Colin we-bay-4u

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 13, 2007 at 4:57 am

  Hi Colin, Thanks

  There is in Guildford a Drop-shop operation (to my shame I don’t know the name), however they are working out of an industrial park - small unit. They have been there for sometime apparently, and seem to be doing ok.

  Points to note, they are not offering franchises, they are not opening further stores in the area.

  I think that is why they are likely to continue. The basic idea - selling for people who can’t be arsed to sell for themselves - is a good one, that’s why so many people had the same idea, independently of each other 3 or 4 years ago. The problem seems to occur the instant you turn it from a small business into a multiple (even if it’s only 2 local stores - a model which fails as often as the bigger boys), because at that point your costs go up, while profit per item remains the same? Ergo, anyone who’s done his homework should be very wary of the promises that emanate from these guys, when they launch, and as the cast around for mugs and funding in no particular order!

  If you go the the other (Auctioning4u opens second franchise) page, and click on ‘chance’s’ link, draw their attention to my comments here and ask her for my eMail, they’ve got it - we’ll talk.

  Strangely there is another guy in Guildford trading out of his bedroom (or something) and calling himself Auctioning4you ! But he’s only in the yellow pages, and therefore relatively invisible.

• chance
  Jul 13, 2007 at 12:54 pm

  Hi Hugh and Colin:
  To curb the curiosity, I have it on good authority that A4U will not be selling any more franchises. They will not be closing, but will be altering their system trying to make it profitable. In fact, I understand that the franchisor will actually be paying franchisees back (unlike the US franchisors who proceeded to blame the franchisees and make their lives a living hell!)
  I will tell you that even the independant stores are NOT making this drop off idea work. And ebay is having their own issues as the market is flooded by China and manufacturers. Other than that, the buyers have gotton smarter, the prices remain low. The “new” work from the warehouse idea, and mobile ideas are not apt to pan out. There are too many inconsistancies and variables, even selling from ones home in a niche is no longer profitable! Perhaps that is why there were half as many people at “Ebay Live” this year as compared to last year.
  Thanks Hugh for trading ideas (you remind mw of my brother-you sure your not related?), and Colin would love to chat more. For now, have a great weekend!

• Pitafull
  Jul 13, 2007 at 1:59 pm

  This entire thread is blown to hell and to assume that AFU is truthful let alone will save the day makes one wonder how people get away with this these websites and all the related misrepresented crap tearing down other companys. Its just not how the world should work. Shame on all of you.

  Further the creditability of people posting here is very suspect. Check the facts you say?

  Chance - Quote
  I have spoken to Christian and will tell you that his system is considerably different than any that have been tried here in the US. So before you judge this struggling business, get ALL the facts (okay Ralph), and you might just find out how pitiful the US franchisors are!

• chance
  Jul 13, 2007 at 9:18 pm

  Pitafull,

  More positive comments would be posted if these franchises worked. Unfortunately they DO NOT! In fact it is disgusting how arrogant and greedy some of the franchisors have been, and how they have treated the franchisees is documented on the website http://www.amitheonlyone.org and here on Franchise pick under the isoldit and snappy threads. Perhaps you should read these sites carefully. I think you will find that Colin, Hugh, and the others have seen the pro’s and con’s. Wake up to reality my friend, and leave the posting to others who can handle the truth, or tell your personal profitable story if there is one.

  PS. I have known Ralph and Christian personally for more than a year now-can you say the same?!

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 14, 2007 at 4:03 am

  “this entire thread is blown to hell”

  ???

  The core question “will Auctioning4u save….” has been directly addressed by most post’ers at least once, the answer seems to have been agreed to be er…NO!

  Now it has opened out to include a wider discussion into drop-shops. Given that one of the problems of the internet is that you get thousands of site discussing some issues, trying to keep everything on one page - as a conversation - seems to me to be a good idea, if you don’t like it A) don’t read it B) don’t post on it - just daftness, Pitfall - you are being daft, that is your ‘pitfall’.

  ‘Chance’ I totally agree with your buyer comment, I’m gutted if I have to pay more than 99p ($2) for a small item, or £4 ($8) for a larger one, and I am careful to always get a postage quote, as I don’t mind the seller making a couple of quid on the postage but resent those that charge a shed-load. Which incidentally is one of the problems the drop-shops suffer from; Higher overheads leads to higher postage.

  The biggest lesson anybody intelligent learns from the internet/eBay is that nothing is rare if it was made after 1920′ish and eventually you will get it for bugger all - if you are willing to wait. If someone bids against you, let them have it; next time they won’t be bidding.

  You can make money selling, but you can not be greedy. I am currently watching several items around the $19 mark, all are actually worth £5 at the most ($2.50), I would pay $5 if the postage is reasonable. These items have all done three 29-day cycles since I started watching them and they aren’t going to sell until the sellers reduce the price. What I’m getting at is;you find that a certain type of dealer fills his/her shop with overpriced buy-it-now stuff and then wonder why they are making no money.

  In that respect, A4U do at least use a 99p start price model, to generate turnover and shift stock, but they aren’t ‘a’ shop, they are an organisation (with high postage), and the net result is things sell low. A shop can be run by a couple, paying themselves the bare minimum (certainly during the ’start-up’ phase) and getting a couple of part-time listers in if busy. If you broke A4U up you would have say - 7 shops, employing around 28 people. The fact is that as auctioning4u, they have 60? odd listers and enough management to fill a mass grave. A grave that when dug, will be lying next to the monuments to iSold It, Auctionicity et al.

  They are about to loose a shop due to landlords renovation, ironically (I believe) the shop that should have been closed when they closed Kensington Olympia instead. when that happens they may ‘let go’ a few listers, but the listers earn nothing compared to the bloated management who will all remain! How can that model succeed in the medium or long term?

  We all know Amazon received financing for years, but they had - at the time - something pretty unique, which was growing exponentially in front of the investors eyes. All Christian has is a slight variation of a tried and tested formula which is declining and falling all over the world.

• Christian Braun, CEO Auctioning4u
  Jul 17, 2007 at 9:23 am

  This blog has been high-jacked by a former iSold It executive, one of our former employees who was not up to the job and is now embittered and a smaller collectible consignment seller who is (rightfully) unhappy about visibility changes to the eBay platform. The discussion so far has been emotional, ridden with personal agendas and not fact based.

  All that being said I guess the answer to the question this blog was set out to answer is a No. We have made some changes to our consumer strategy. We will emphasize our home collection side and drop the franchise model, for more see our announcement here http://www.auctioning4u.co.uk/Newsflashes/Newsflash/Auctioning4u_unveils_new_consumer_strategy. And since this is a franchise blog, we believe to have treated our franchisees fairly, see also Ina Steiner’s report on http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y07/m07/i17/s01.

  It does seem that franchising eBay related ideas has not worked to date; we wish anybody else that tries another angle the best of luck in doing so. Since we are not going to franchise in the near- to medium-term future we will not contribute further to this blog.

• Auctioning4u Scraps Franchise Program, Closes eBay Drop-Off Stores
  Jul 17, 2007 at 12:57 pm

  […] reference to the title question of the FranchisePick.com post “Will Auctioning4U Save the eBay Drop Off Franchise?” which was published upon their acquisition of the assets of the failed iSold It UK Master […]

• Auctioning4u Scraps Franchise Program, Closes eBay Drop-Off Stores at PIGASYS
  Jul 17, 2007 at 1:29 pm

  […] reference to the title question of the FranchisePick.com post “Will Auctioning4U Save the eBay Drop Off Franchise?” which was published upon their acquisition of the assets of the failed iSold It UK Master […]

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 17, 2007 at 4:14 pm

  Hijacked!!! What are we - Terrorists?? How can you hijack something in the public domain?

  At the risk of sounding facetious; You started it! I did suggest above I thought your posting was a mistake…

  I notice you neglect to tell us that this has all occurred in less then two weeks, and that the shop staff have had less than 4 weeks notice their jobs will be no more at the end of the month, still I know all about that facet of your management style don’t I ?(being all embittered after my 3 hours notice to clear my desk!).

  What about your ‘new’ franchise in Manchester? What about the existing franchise in the South East? What about the iSold It shops?

• sean
  Jul 17, 2007 at 4:38 pm

  Ladies & Gentlemen, we have been hijacked. Please remain calm and stay in your seats.
  Auctioning4u Scraps Franchise Program, Closes eBay Drop-Off Stores

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 17, 2007 at 4:48 pm

  On behalf of the hijacker’s - or at least the ‘embittered’ portion of them - I would like to assure you all that; provided you keep reading, and refuse to let the bastards get you down; NO harm will come to you……oh yeh - and can you put all valuables in the bag please, Auctioning4u need them on eBay ASAP.

• FranBest.com
  Jul 17, 2007 at 4:59 pm

  Unfortunately, the plane was returning from eBay Live. Your bag shall remain empty.

• chance
  Jul 17, 2007 at 8:31 pm

  Proving once again…

  THE CONCEPT DOES NOT WORK!

  (As more store closes down…with one more bankruptcy, divorce, and health issue.)

• FenceSitter
  Jul 17, 2007 at 9:14 pm

  It appears Auctioning4U was all smoke.

  It appears Ralph was the only one that was speaking with facts in this thread.

  It appears chance is a fence sitter and jumps on the popular side if there is an opportunity to bash someone (see below). But oh wait the tide as turned its back to the other side of the fence.

  Now this side of the fence is pounding its chest with the other view - “Proving once again. The concept does not work”

  Ok bad on the fence for the next jump—–>

  chance
  Jun 1, 2007 at 9:08 pm
  So before you judge this struggling business, get ALL the facts , and you might just find out how pitiful the US franchisors are!

• sean
  Jul 18, 2007 at 6:46 am

  Fencesitter: Welcome, and thanks for your contribution.
  I reread the comments and think that Chance was consistent. Chance made the point that the A4U might not work, or might work abroad but not in the US, but at least they’re trying a new approach, not just selling an opportunity they KNOW doesn’t work.
  There’s a big difference between A4U/Christian Braun and iSold It/Ken Sully, in my view.
  A4U put out some creatively spun PR, which I criticized (as did Ralph). But to their credit, they never, to my knowledge, sold inexperienced franchisees an untested concept by portraying it as a proven success. Their two franchisees were already in the business, one an orphan of iSold It UK. That’s the bigger issue. And to Christian’s credit, he pulled the plug quickly when it wasn’t working and worked out an amicable parting with the franchisees. By contrast, iSold It was still selling franchises and saying that all was fine even though 60 stores had closed and many, many more were struggling to survive. I’ve been told that the very week that Sully’s “Open Letter” surfaced, the iSold It VP of Marketing told a reporter that all was great and the only store that closed was one terminated by Corporate.
  And Ralph? Ralph’s sole interest was taking potshots at Christian. Fairness, ethics and all that crap bored him so he left… probably to finish his Auctioning4u dartboard or to stick pins in his Christian Braun doll.

• chance
  Jul 18, 2007 at 11:22 am

  Fencesitter appears a bit confused. A4U settled amicably with his franchisees, something the US franchisors didn’t do (without a gag).

  I agree with you Sean that the UK franchisor stepped back when he realized that the concept wasn’t working instead of using his franchisees as guinea pigs like the US franchisors. Also, iSoldit told their franchisees in the letter you released, that they would not be selling franchises anymore so they could help make the stores more profitable (cough, cough… as one more closes), and at the same time ISI filed with the state of CA a new UFOC for “selling” franchises with a mobile and warehouse concept. So who were they lying to - the state or the franchisees?!

  As for Snappy, they believe in Santa Claus!

  Perhaps the US franchisors should take lessons from the UK.

• nochance
  Jul 18, 2007 at 11:53 am

  Chance
  It appears all you care about is thrashing everyone and calling them a lier.

  iSold It announced to its franchisees and the public that it was now accepting applications in early June from a limited number of new franchisees and screening them against stringent guidelines.

  This is also stated on their website.
  http://www.i-soldit.com/your_store.asp.

  To continue to call people liers really brings down your creditability. Have you ever offered anything useful to these threads.

• nochance
  Jul 18, 2007 at 12:53 pm

  oops that link did not work because there is a period at the end.

  http://www.i-soldit.com/your_store.asp

• sean
  Jul 18, 2007 at 2:32 pm

  NoChance:
  I followed your link and went through the slide show. I’m puzzled by something (not just with ISI) & maybe you or others can help clarify.
  The purpose of franchising is to duplicate successful, proven business concepts, correct? Individuals or groups pay a premium, in the form of franchise fees and royalties as well as autonomy, in order to gain the benefits of an established, proven system that has the bugs worked out. The belief is that the burden of fees and restrictions are more than offset by not having to “reinvent the wheel,” or to survive the trial and error phase.
  Most of the new iSold It venues are characterized in the presentation as “experimental.” How can a franchise opportunity be “experimental”? Isn’t that the root of the problem here, that franchisees are under the burden of franchise fees and restrictions, but there is no established proven system to provide benefit?
  Isn’t it the franchisor’s job to “experiment” before they offer franchises? Does iSold It have corporate prototypes for testing these new iterations, or are franchisees paying for that privilege?

  For another example, see Reality, Surreality & Cereality or this one on Cold Stone Creamery buying Cereality.

• Christian Braun, CEO Auctioing4u
  Jul 18, 2007 at 2:43 pm

  Dear Sean,

  I am still following this discussion and suggest that you change one of the ground rules.

  Participants like Ralph, FenceSitter and NoChance are obviously working in this industry (they look all iSold It related - for all we know they might even be the same). They should identify themselves. While I disagree with Colin or Hugh on various points they did identify themselves and listed their connection to the industry. It is therefore possible to read their comments in context.

  Christian

• nochance
  Jul 18, 2007 at 3:33 pm

  Changing the location does not change the franchise. The slides I am reading on their website shows the same franchise model in three different locations. But the business model is the same.

  I get that - so if I want to work from home or a warehouse instead of a retail store I have that option. Seems to make sense to me

• Hugh Walter
  Jul 18, 2007 at 5:35 pm

  The business model when working out of a van is not going to be the same as a fixed shop? Hence “experimental” (i.e. as Sean was getting at; not really a franchise!)

  The slide show was all fluff and nonsense, a bit like A4U’s ‘end of the road show’ press release.

  And I quote “After four years and 100,000 items sold, Auctioning4u has canvassed its customer base and is reflecting the findings in a brand new and exciting consumer strategy.”

  Er…No! After several weeks of press releases about saving iSold It stores, and signing ‘new’ franchises, they told their shop staff they were out on their ears, bought some half respectable quotes from their (now) ex-franchisees, and then spun the news that they are dying on their feet.

  ‘Brand new, exiting loss of all our visible high-street presence’ more like.

  “Auctioning4u will be adding to its fleet of four home collection vans and…”

  A few weeks ago they only had two vans, the photo’ of three is clearly a photo-montage, and one doesn’t need to be an embittered ex-employee to see that if…

  “With that in mind, the company has decided to concentrate on and grow the already bustling home collection arm of the business and close its drop-off shops”

  …One would have expected the vans to have been bought before the press release. Where was their “research” when they were busy expanding their drop shop empire a month ago? Let’s face it, they are running ragged.

  CB talks of a lack of “fact based” discussion, well here are some facts;

  Fact: The support page for the ISI shops was removed within hours of my mentioning it here. It’ll be in a cache somewhere and if the national media ever get hold of this sorry tale, you can be sure they will get hold of that page.

  Fact: None of the questions asked by anyone on this or the other page (particularly with ref. to the iSold It franchises) have been answered by A4U.

  Fact: At time of writing (approximately half-past midnight) Auctioning4u - with (still, just!) 2 franchises, 3/4 in-house drop-shops, an unspecified No. of ex-ISI stores, a B2B operation and “four vans” has 575 items on eBay, with another 46 under a separate fashion heading, to which, because I am a generous soul, I will add the 264 books they have on Amazon, which I calculate is 885 items live. Vectis, predominantly a specialist toy/collectables auction house in the North East (and some strange perceived nemesis of Christians) have 762 items on eBay. Vectis have not set themselves up as a drop-shop corporation, do not seem to have city funding and have managed their total with a staff of 20 odd, against A4U’s 100 odd.

  Facts, or the embittered ramblings of an emotive madman? you decide - answers on a post card please!

  As I have maintained throughout, this is not a concept for franchise, the overheads are tight enough, before fees to an overlord. I remain a fan of the core idea - making money out of e-selling platforms, using stock from people too lazy to do it themselves.

  At the moment eBay is problematical, particularly here in the UK, where a strong pound and Mr. Crozier’s postal regime have locked out a portion of our world-wide buyer base. Yet at the same time it must be pointed out that millions of items are on-line right now, and an advanced ‘finnished’ search in most categories will reveal that more than two thirds of all items sell. If you have a failure rate over 1/3. I would suggest you are doing something wrong.

  If you really want a franchise, if you really have £/$15/20k+ to throw at someone else’s idea, get into vacuum cleaners or dental veneers!

• chance
  Jul 18, 2007 at 8:25 pm

  Sean makes an excellent point that a franchise is “supposed to be” a TURNKEY proven concept! And as for $20,000 for a franchise, I don’t think so! It is more than $100K for any of the US franchises in this model. You better have alot of extra capital to dump into it on a monthly basis until the franchisors work out the bugs in their experimental concepts. (At least the UK admits they have bugs - even if Hugh had to point it out to them).

  No one needs a franchisor to sell from home, just a business permit from their city! (Hugh, do you sell business permits yet…I think Nochance needs one! He hasn’t got a chance, hence “Nochance”)

  Regarding lying, Nochance, here are the FACTS…

  “Don Sniegowski of franchise industry website Blue Mau Mau confirmed that the letter posted anonymously on Franchise Pick April 7, 2007 was indeed issued by iSold It CEO Ken Sully and distributed to their franchisees on April 6.”

  http://www.franchisepick.com/an-open-letter-to-isold-it-franchisees-from-ceo-ken-sully/

  And Mar. 14th, 2007 the newest UFOC is filed with the state of CA saying otherwise. Feel free to download the file at …

  http://134.186.208.228/caleasi/search.asp?TASKNAME=xshowDocs&PackageID=233176

  Explain to me and the rest of the world how it is that Mr. Sully ISN’T lying to one or the other, when he filed this UFOC in March, and tells his franchisees the opposite less than a month later.

  Opps, somebody put two and two together!

• sean
  Jul 19, 2007 at 10:15 am

  NoChance: You’re saying that these new venues are just variations of the current store concept, which doesn’t work. So NOW franchisees also have the option of losing money from a warehouse OR losing money from a van as well? This makes sense to you… what am I missing?
  Is it safe to assume you’re on the selling end of the iSold It franchise program? Mind sharing your role in all this?
  You’re not Ralph reincarnated, are you?

• Robert Stephenson
  Jul 19, 2007 at 4:02 pm

  Hi guys, been following this with interest. Most will know I run Auction it Today in Australia, and I am upfront with who I am and what I do. In Australia I am using a combination of the drop-off concept and the pickup style. The model isn’t complex, and the software we use is excellent (not my words, but those of many thousands of people who use it. I am just the first, well Beta tester in Australia)

  The warehouse concept is sound, but not the staff numbers. The van owners need to make at leaset 20% of the sale to make their business worth the effort and fuel and running costs. So, of the vans need to make this (and these van owners are franchise owners) what kind of percentage does a huge warehouse with over sixty staff need.

  When working out the model for Australia, which took me a years of hard thinking and some number crunching, I found flaws in several ebay selling systems. ISI was just one. What I have changed significantly is territory. The current systems are strong on securing trading territories, only on inventory.

  Auction it Today Australia has designed its territories to give each franchisee (of which there will be four, perhaps five per Australian state) a base of 200 000 potential customers, including business and factory outlets.

  In my state, my AiT KIOSK business runs from a traditional auction house. Large items not suited to ebay, or bulk items go through the tradition auctions while smaller, shippable items go through ebay. Now, this negotiation was bloody hard work, as traditional auctions see ebay as a competitor. Working from this location isn’t easy either, but it is great grounding for development and item monitoring.

  I don’t know if my concept will work any better that what is on the table, but to be honest, it couldn’t be any worse.

  I don’t believe in grand press releases, spin and hype. These things are for people wanting to make a fast buck - always has been. I simply work hard and let that work speak for itself. If someone want to join me, they can. No spin, no inspirational shop sell.

  There is some good living to made, but they also take honest and hard working people to make them.

  Robert

• sean
  Jul 19, 2007 at 7:00 pm

  “I don’t know if my concept will work any better that what is on the table…” Your honesty is refreshing & disclosure of identity appreciated.
  Using eBay in conjunction with an auction house is interesting. It puzzles me that these companies don’t develop direct sales and marketing channels in addition to eBay.

• nochance
  Jul 19, 2007 at 9:53 pm

  Sean
  I see these other locations will havre a lower fixed overhead and that is what I am reading is casing stress is retal rents so I think this is not a bad option.

  Chance
  All franchisors must uodate their UFOC each year within 90 days I think of their year end.

  All franchisors do this to keep their UFOC current. Remember whether they are selling new stores or not, they need a current UFOC for store transfers and current franchsiees opening 2nd stores.

  So I do not get what you do not get about this simple franchisor requirement. They can still refrain from selling stores if they choose

• chance
  Jul 19, 2007 at 11:02 pm

  Robert thanks for the information. I am glad your franchisor gave you free reign to figure out the best model. However, here in the states, that latitude is not tolerated. Therefore, exisiting franchisees are at the mercy of bad concepts, and bad franchisors. Here’s hoping you come up with something that works!

  Nochance, All franchisors must update their UFOC’s ACCURATELY within 30 days of any significant changes. And it is not necessary to have a UFOC if one is not selling franchises. However, the UFOC in question is in violation, like the last few - but that is another thread. The point was that the CEO said one thing to the state, and another thing to his franchisees. In fact, stating that they are now selling franchises again, only proves my point.

  As for the warehouse and mobile ideas, I must agree with Sean. It appears that these ideas are “expermental”, once again, and not what was sold to the existing franchisees. Perhaps that is why the stores continue to shut down. We shall see!

  Nochance, I believe you need to own one of these stores, so you will see how bad the concepts and franchisors really are!

• Colin Baynard
  Jul 20, 2007 at 2:01 am

  Hello contributors’

  I think Christian Braun is a man to be respected being of the uppermost character, as it takes such a person to come clean and admit when he is wrong.

  Making this concept work as a franchise or independent it make no real difference which, the success will depend on several factors.

  1: Personal knowledge of the business
  2: Low start up and overhead costs
  3: A steady flow of High Ticket items that actually sell
  4: Location
  5: Having more than one selling platform

  Personal knowledge of the business;
  Whoever is offering this service must know what they are doing. With many of the Drop Off franchisees & even independents (we have seen 5 open & close in our area in the past 3 ½ years). All the operators have had little or no experience with eBay in general and possibly little or no previous selling experiences. Selling online requires specialist knowledge and many skills and no one can teach the skills. No franchisor has the magic formula yet or can offer any thing different to that all ready being offered on eBay for Free. I have been on eBay since 1998 and have devoted 1000s upon 1000s of hours to the site.

  eBay have not helped the punters by continuing to preach that selling on eBay is as easy as 1 2 3. That is a BIG misconception, far from actual truth for most people, as we all know here. What eBay do not tell us is that selling on line is costly, (in more ways than just eBay fees) even working from home it is not a 9-5 job it is not automated and will consume mounds of precious time like no other selling platform.

  Low start up and overhead costs;
  When you start from behind it takes a lot of catching up. If the overheads and weekly operating costs are high when all added you can only go one way, backwards.

  A steady flow of High Ticket items that actually sell;
  Without the high ticket items that actually sell you do not have a business. The average ‘Junk’ most people will want you to sell on eBay will not make any significant in-roads to paying the costs, in actual fact whatever the value of items sold or not sold, all cost money & consume vast chucks of your day. Low value or high value all costs the same in administration, the strange thing is for high value sales the chances of getting after the sale aggravation is very rare, with low value sales the buyers will always look for faults and are quick to complain and leave negative feedback.

  Location:
  Is important in any business, for this business in the UK you have to consider a main rd built up area, you don’t need a shopping centre location, maybe one near by will help. Our own location is a former post office bank, on the main road in & out of town. We have forecourt and on street parking. We are next to a school, a medical centre, Doctors Surgery, Emergency Clinic. Not far from two 24 hour Tesco Express one north & the other south. Our road being the main road, most people will pass our shop a detached building very noticeable, several times in the week. We also get most of the Blackpool holiday visitor traffic passing our door. We have a busy pelican crossing (Xway) right outside, that stops fresh traffic every few minutes, throughout most of the day. Having such a prominent position in 3 1/2 years we have spent a big Zero on advertising. We have had plenty of media attention local & national. In the North West area generally and in our shop location the rents are low. The same shop size in London or most big cities would cost £300 a week we do not pay 1/3 of that including local rates (taxes).

  Having more than one selling platform:
  Relying on eBay as the only selling platform has proved to be un-reliable over the past 12 months, particularly since February this year.
  Hugh stated previously & he is 100% correct that you have to sell outside the eBay boundaries. Since February we have seen a massive decline in eBay sales, due to one fact & one fact alone, eBay have changed the goal posts. They have altered the system several times but the changes introduced in February 07 may be that Bridge To Far. The decline in sales was so rapid we have been caught with our pants down. I don’t know if it is possible to adapt to the changes this time, particularly as we no longer have a world market place. As for most collectables we need that world exposure to drive up the auction prices.

  I don’t believe that either and or, the home pick up / have the clients send the items to us in the post is the answer. Transportation costs are high and you can only charge the clients so much for you services. Most LIVING clients want to get rid of junk, most is the type of junk that does not sell, and most will have little or no eBayable value. You would have to kiss a lot of stuff every day to find some suitable treasures. All takes precious time to sort and process all costs money to store or dispose off. It is hard enough when you have the client sat in front of you and the items are on the table. What I am saying here is YOU the EXPERT must see the Stash before you can even try and attempt to turn it into Cash!

  In my educated view being in the trade for the best part of 30 years and after sitting here for 3 1/2 years, day & night (some day’s for 15 or more hours) doing the actual job on the High Street. The only way that selling items for other people on eBay as a business will work, is as a bolt on. I see Robert in Australia has a similar idea. I am working on an idea that does have appeal and has been working for centuries, and it is all about offering several choices to the client, and even some choices for the buyers. As we do not have backing outside our own pockets we have to generate our own capital to continu