The UPS Store: Fan Mail From Some Flounder(ers)
(FranchisePick.Com) “One would think that the UPS franchise owners would have generated a lot of support from fellow business owners… But I’ve found the UPS store owners to be a tough group to love.”
I have posted extensively on the struggles of The UPS Store franchise owners, who claim they have suffered a raw deal at the hands of the corporate giant.
Many of them purchased Mail Boxes, Etc. (MBE) franchises, and initially offered multiple shipping options, including both FedEx and UPS. When MBE was acquired by UPS, many franchisees claim they were pressured to both convert to the UPS name and drop competitive shipping alternatives like FedEx. Once they did, many franchisees allege, UPS began undercutting them by marketing lower rates directly to their potential consumers. To make matters worse, parcel-delivery-associated UPS name impaired their ability to market add-on services such as photocopying and document printing.
The franchisees have at least two lawsuits in progress against UPS.
It’s ironic that UPS, a company that caters to business owners, would treat their own small business owners so harshly. One would think that the UPS franchise owners would have generated a lot of support from fellow business owners and UPS stockholders.
My “bubble [wrap] of self-importance” is popped by barbed Cliches du Jour.
But I’ve found the UPS store owners to be a tough group to love. On my first trip to one of their forums, I was almost immediately attacked as a spy and outsider. When I recently suggested that UPS owners should bolster their contentions by providing some specific examples of stores that were operated by the book but still failed or failing, I was assailed with several insulting emails from a store owner who posts anonymously as “Fedup”:
You have an unjustifiably inflated opinion of yourself, as perhaps befits someone with a writing degree from a third-tier school…. Now that I’ve insulted you, as you did me on your blog, I hope I’ve been able to puncture your bubble of self-importance and get your attention so you can focus on the ‘graph following, which is provided as CONFIDENTIAL
This was followed by more vague ramblings and no “graph.” When I suggested to him that it would be possible to provide specific examples without undermining their lawsuit by, say, linking to published stories, I got more insults:
Your above attempt at sarcasm is both banal and pathetic. Being in a lawsuit precludes litigants from making specific statements could work against them, period…
And as a final reminder, once again, I repeat: As to whether we can prevail–or, to use your awkward expression, “outgun a corporate giant”–you seem to forget that a guy named David outgunned a giant quite handily. Or, to use another cliché de jour, “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.”
…I’m through engaging in a battle of wits with the unarmed.
Whew! This is how UPS owners communicate with writers sympathetic to their cause?
My bubble [wrap] of self-importance had been pierced and my writing ability trashed by a man who uses the term cliché de jour.
I didn’t have the energy to clarify that a children’s Bible story involving a giant, a rock and a slingshot was not what I meant by a specific, tangible example…
I resisted the temptation to stoop to his level, to lash back that if he was so smart, why’d his Ivy League education lead him to owning a money-losing mailroom where daily he curses the very packing peanuts and bubble wrap that once brought him such delight? And why, pray tell, is he such a dick?
(Ok. I lied. I didn’t resist that last temptation).
I will continue to try to remember that one loudmouthed jerk should not reflect poorly on all The UPS Store owners. I will even consider that he may be a corporate shill, one of them outside agitators. But UPS franchise owners might want to consider reining in some of their colleagues.
It’s great to see there’s a lot of fight in the dog, but sometimes a leash, muzzle and few sessions at BarkBusters can do wonders for your public image.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
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64 opinions for The UPS Store: Fan Mail From Some Flounder(ers)
Fedup
Apr 27, 2008 at 9:23 am
Sean, the apostrophe in ‘graph, as I used it, is commonly employed as shorthand for the word “paragraph,” not a chart-type “graph.” Most writers know this.
What has made me angry and adverserial is your continuing refusal to accept the fact that none of the responsible litigants in the very active lawsuits are going to play your little game of “Court of Public Opinion.” Our legals have cautioned against this very thing. We have chosen to take our case to the real courts. Our facts are assembled and where they belong, in the hands of our very capable lawyers, and matters are proceeding.
Let me repetat this one more time, in the hope that it will finally sink in: Being in a lawsuit precludes litigants from making specific statements could work against them, period…
I have repeatedly suggested, and will do so one more time, that if you want to find the facts, get off your butt and do some research. Go out and talk to at least a dozen store owners who’ve been in business at least 6 to 8 years, and have seen the difference between being an MBE and a UPS Store.
You are NOT sympathetic to our cause if you suggest actions that can compromise our efforts, which is EXACTLY what you are doing. Again repeating myself, I suggest you check with a competent lawyer to confirm what I, and others, have already said in response to your request.
As to over name-calling, such as you’ve engaged in, I’ll pass. Such vulgarity, like profanity, is the last refuge of the hopelessly inarticulate.
Ask The Man That Owns One
Apr 27, 2008 at 9:24 am
Sean,
It seems that you first insulted us by calling us lazy whining slackers, and then expected us not to respond in kind!
Secondly, fedup apparently sent you an email, made a concious decision not to post to a blog and you are making that private email public.
We understand that you like to push our hot buttons for your own reasons, but please do not try to take advantage of us.
As for those that claim that the UPS Store is viable, where are their facts and figures to back up what they say?
A good point has been made that those in lawsuits have to be careful as UPS is looking for anything possible that can be turned against them.
Those that claim the program works cannot cite success stories simply because there are none that have been published for them to link to!
Challenge to John;
What was the volume of your MBE Centers in 2002, what was the volume of your UPS Stores in 2007.
How did the growth compare to the 39% annual
growth set by the Franchise Advisory Council as the acceptable goal to justify roll out of the program on the national basis.
How about the goal stated at the same time that net profit would increase by 77%, did your stores meet or exceed that goal.
In fact, after adjusting for inflation, are you better off than five years ago.
The lower margins were to be more than made up by increased volume, did anything like this happen in your stores?
How are your stores tracking against the ballyhooed objective of the typical $1,000,000
stores projected by 2007, later modified to by 2008.
Please share facts and figures, not just broad brush claims.
Thank You
Tyler
Apr 27, 2008 at 10:59 am
To me, it is apparent that MBE did a very poor job of selecting franchisees that understood that success of a franchise consists of three imperative items:
1- Follow the system as designed
2- Consistency in Marketing and Operations by each individual owner to brand standards.
3- HARD WORK
You guys are putting so much energy into proving your points and/or getting your “cases” together.
How about hitting the street with flyers?
Networking with surrounding businesses to let them know about your valuable services?
Making sure your staff is trained to maximize revenue opportunities and upsell?
Loving your customers so that they return?
Everyone that has complained about the franchise has such a negative tone. Get out and change something! Be the change you want to see.
I am a franchisee of another concept. I realized it was not up to the parent franchisor to make me a success. It was up to ME and MY TEAM. Same with you guys. Get off the computer. Quit calling other franchisees to convince them to see “your side” and work your business. Its as simple as that.
You have AWESOME name recognition with your concept. Get our your franchise training manuals, inventory your current operations and marketing and get back to basics.
Leave the negativity at home. You CAN do this!
Tyler
sean
Apr 27, 2008 at 11:05 am
Every month, Entrepreneur magazine alone promotes how great the UPS Store franchise is to 2.5 Million readers. Millions more read the same glorified story in other business media and websites.
A precious few unpaid Internet sites give exposure to the other side of the story, and give franchise owners a forum to voice their side of the story. We are one of them. We’re not in competition with BlueMauMau. We’re good friends and collaborators. I blog over there too; they have a high concentration of knowledgeable industry insiders. FranchisePick.com is completely different, a single author blog with our own audience and links to 300+ non-industry blogs.
If you look at the 13 posts I’ve made in as many months, you’ll see whose side I lean(ed) toward.
I wasn’t calling The UPS Store owners “lazy whiny slackers.” I was representing the characterization your opponents use to dismiss you to franchise prospects. When they bring all those leads in from all that positive press and advertising, I’m sure they answer the objections by saying that the rabble on the Internet didn’t follow the system and were overly negative.
My intention was to give you an opportunity to disprove them with some (publicly available) specifics. I wasn’t expecting validation.
I’ll keep sending up signal flares for those who come here to get alternative info on franchise opportunities. I’ll also resist the temptation to think that Fedup represents most of the other owners; I’m sure his delicate and humble approach has endeared him to manyof them as well.
Is The UPS Store a Good Franchise Opportunity?
Owners call the UPS Store Franchise “Indentured Servitude,” and “A Nightmare”
Is UPS Cheating its Customers, Franchisees… and YOU?
The UPS Store PLUS The eBay Drop-Off Store Equals…?
UPS Store Franchise Dream Ends in a Florida Trailer Park
Franchise Owners Say Opening a UPS Store Franchise is a “Bad Financial Decision”
The UPS Store Franchise Owner’s Lawsuit Certified as Class Action
Franchise Pick’s Most Volatile Posts of 2007: A Wrap-Up
UPS Store Franchise Owner Says You’d Succeed If You’d Stop Whining
The UPS Store Franchise: Follow the System and Succeed!
The UPS Store Franchise: This Dog Won’t Hunt!
The UPS Store: Fan Mail From Some Flounder(ers)
sean
Apr 27, 2008 at 11:22 am
Tyler’s got a point.
We’re in business for 10 years, members of the Chamber of Commerce, etc. We used to use an MBE. I continually get postcards from an Alphagraphics much further away, email offers and mailers from Staples, a Unishipper’s rep that calls and visits in person… nothing from The UPS Stores in the area.
On other forums I’ve read disturbing comments showing a negative attitude toward customers, taking it out on them for wanting to drop off packages. It’s a dark and self-defeating attitude -even if your complaints ARE legitimate.
Accept the things you cannot change.
Change the things you can.
Tyler
Apr 27, 2008 at 11:26 am
Its all about planning your work and working your plan. I would love to hear about actions steps and items some of these floundering franchisees have exhausted before getting so turned off by the company. How many events have you attended to promote your business? How many small businesses have you called on to get their business? Although you are a national company, you still have to work your own backyard for sales leads.
Fedup
Apr 27, 2008 at 12:56 pm
“I’ll also resist the temptation to think that Fedup represents most of the other owners; I’m sure his delicate and humble approach has endeared him to manyof them as well.”
Tsk, another woeful attempt at scarasm. Sean, I’ve made it clear that to get real information requires that you make an honest effort. This does not include banal posts from someone like “Tyler,” who not only has no dog in the fight, (yup, another cliche de jour), but doesn’t even know where the fight is being held.
To remind you both, those of us in lawsuits are neither stupid nor lazy, have tried “playing by the rules” and “working the plan”, and have discovered that the franchisor has written the rules so that the plan works only for him.
“Ask the Man Who Owns One” invites “John” to respond with some specific facts and figures. He won’t.
For the final time, as I have repeatedly suggested: IF YOU WANT TO FIND THE FACTS, GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND DO SOME REAL RESEARCH. Go out and talk to at least a dozen store owners who’ve been in business at least 6 to 8 years, and have seen the difference between being an MBE and a UPS Store.
Let us know what you learn as a result of this invaluable firsthand experience–IF you’ve got the guts and get-up-and-go to actually make an effort.
(STAGE WHISPER): “Gawd, what level of provocation does it take to get this drone motivated to movement and action?”
michael webster
Apr 27, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Sean;
The US UPS/MBE lawsuits are very tough - UPS has engaged in what I would consider very dubious tactics.
(I have some MBE clients in Canada.)
At this stage, there is no chance of public posting suggesting material improvements to the business model.
The litigants have a special worry in this case about leaking things to the public.
rita wilson
Apr 27, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Sounds like the people wanting to sue are just lazy to me. Buying a franchise is a risk and takes work. Its easy to blame the franchisor in these situations. I bet the same people suing are the same people that went to the principal of schools everytime their son/daughter got in trouble and claimed unfairness. People–go get out there and make money. I see UPS Store ads all the time on National Television. They are doing their part to drive the customers in. Its your job to sell them things and take care of their needs so you earn (key word earn, not sit back and wait) their trust and ongoing business. Put effort into your stores–not this non-sense. You bought the business with certain risks–now capitalize on free enterprise and make your business successful.
Rita J Wilson
sean
Apr 27, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Ask the Man That Owns One:
I truly do apologize if you took it that I was insulting UPS franchise owners. With one notable retroactive exception, I wasn’t. Again, if you read through, you’ll see I’m quite sympathetic and a strong supporter of franchisees in difficult situations. I have no economic stake in that position - quite the contrary.
The other thread contained John’s calm and rational-sounding comment and a wild, insulting rant by someone saying that the company was just a bunch of crooks and idiots because someone picked him uplate from his hotel or something. An outsider reading that exchange would not conclude that the franchisees were the more rational or credible of the two sides.
I DID, in fact, ask the man who owns one, and requested the same thing you asked of John: “…facts and figures, not just broad brush claims.” It was a request, not a challenge.
Honestly, FedUp is one of those guys who just wants to vent, rant and rave. Every franchisee group has one. He’s smarter than anyone in the room. He loves the sound of his voice. Depending on which franchise organization you’re in, the “FedUp” franchisee believes he invented frozen yogurt or express delivery or fast food. Other franchisees roll their eyes behind his back at times, but he’ll always be the one leading the charge, even when they hang back. The problem with these guys is they give franchisors an excuse to dismiss the legitimate points made by reasonable franchisees capable of compromise.
Someone who’s legally free to rant and rave here, on BlueMauMau and on BrainFuel but goes into a tirade when asked for a few examples might not be the guy you want out front representing your group. The person shouting the loudest doesn’t necessarily have the best message.
michael webster
Apr 27, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Sean;
You cannot ask people in litigation to provide you with documentary proof - you are not going to get it.
The basic claim has always been that a) UPS wanted to drive the internet customers or drop-off customers to the UPS/MBE store, complete with shipping documents filled out online, and b) pay the drop-off store peanuts for dealing with this type of client.
There is really doubt about this set of facts: whether it gives rise to a legal claim or not is what the large dispute is about.
There are many other important issues, but the change to the business model is huge.
People, like Rita Johnson, don’t have a clue. The UPS ads are delivering losing business to the UPS franchisees. Yeah!
Tyler
Apr 27, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Right On, Sean! The franchise I am affiliated has a loud barker. The lady is a multi-unit operator and she causes much commotion at our National Franchise Meetings– However, if you examine her revenues for her locations–she is always in the bottom half of the network, she has complaints filed with the BBB and corporate is always taking customer complaint calls on her locations. Why??? Because, she puts much energy into spearheading complaints about corporate with other franchisees–I am willing to estimate she spends 10-15 hours each week on her cell calling others in the network to complain about corporate support and why corporate is to blame for bad ads, low traffic, etc. She is choosing to “lead the pack” as her full-time job. It appears that may be the case with FedUP—Maybe we should buy a case of the book The Secret and distribute it to all these complainers.
Rita Wilson
Apr 27, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Michael-
One question? Do you own a franchise location of any brand?
There are my opinions and YES I have a clue! Do you know how many franchises are out there that do not even deliver National Advertising and expect the Zees to invest their own money in their market? My point is UPS advertises Color Copies and the services they offer. If the franchisees are not maximizing opportunities to take a client from buying 1 item (bringing in packages) and upsell them to many other features and products the UPS Store offers–how is that the franchisors fault?
If they have just trained their staff to be yes people and just accept packages–without putting effort into suggestive selling–that is the Zees fault, not the franchisor.
sean
Apr 27, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Michael:
I wasn’t asking people in litigation for documentary proof - I’m asking if anyone can point to some store or stores that followed the system as they should have and still failed. A link to a newspaper article, interview, anything…
Commenter “John” contended the business model is profitable if diligently implemented. Others said the model is hopelessly flawed and 60% of the units were losing money. Instead of “Yes it is” vs. “No it isn’t” I simply asked for examples. It could be from a customer for all I care.
I’m no fan of the horrific tactics UPS allegedly made in taking over, converting the franchisees, then changing the rules of the game.
At the same time, people are considering buying this franchise either new or as a resale. This discussion comes up pretty high in Google searches for “UPS Store Franchise” If it’s not a viable business model, it would be helpful to give an example. You know the salespeople at Discovery Day will have no shortage of examples to prove their case.
sean
Apr 27, 2008 at 3:23 pm
As far as Rita not having a clue… I don’t know.
I had an MBE very close buy. I was doing a high volume of order fulfillment for a while and tried to work out a program with the MBE owner rather than doing it in-house. He was disinterested. I remember him ignoring me once when I tried to give him steady business but he was playing with his new business card cutter. So I ended up calling UPS and getting a machine & route pickup. The MBE switched to UPS, I believe, then closed. I have 5 UPS Stores within 10 miles. I had to just look them up to see, because I’ve never heard from them, once.
It’s a service business. Plenty of us are willing to pay extra for service. But you’ve got to be willing to provide service. In our case, they drove us to working with UPS directly… and the others have never once asked for our business.
Michael Webster
Apr 27, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Sean and Rita;
Rita: I am an attorney, I don’t own a franchise. My observation was that UPS promised to deliver customers who could be sold on new services. I believe that UPS knew that this was false - that their own studies showed that the drop-off customer was only that.
Sean: Of course you can examples of bad operators. No doubt about it. But the UPS claim was: a) we will deliver traffic, and b) you will gain on the upsale. The traffic being delivered is not interested in being upsold.
Michael Webster
Apr 27, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Sean writes: “You know the salespeople at Discovery Day will have no shortage of examples to prove their case.”
Well, yeah. But who cares - any franchise salesperson will have examples.
Due Diligence is done far in advance of discovery day, unless you just want to lose your money because of confirmation bias.
Michael Webster
Apr 27, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Rita:
What I should have said was this.
Rita doesn’t have a clue about the allegations in the various lawsuit, otherwise she would not be talking about upselling without addressing what the MBE franchisees claim is wrong with the upsale theory.
sean
Apr 27, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Michael:
I think we’re on different pages.
The conversation really wasn’t about the merits of the lawsuit or even the value (or lack of value) of UPS’ support.
It was whether or not new franchisees buying a resale or even starting up had a workeable business model that, in a decent location with competent management, could be reasonably profitable.
If each location is just a glorified UPS drop box with little to no profit potential, there must be many of them closing.
I will not, however, request any examples of such ;)
Fedup
Apr 27, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Michael Webster is a respected attorney who has been following developments in the MBE/UPS matter for years, since long before the FranchisePick blog came into existence.
To quote his first post: “The litigants have a special worry in this case about leaking things to the public.”
His second: “You cannot ask people in litigation to provide you with documentary proof - you are not going to get it.”
If you want more examples of the viability of the UPS Store business model, check Blue Mau Mau for link to news stores and a multitude of appropriate posts. Or, as I’ve suggested again and again, get out and go do some homework of your own.
jd
Apr 27, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Michael, maybe you can shed some attorney light on this for me. I was reading one of the UPS California cases on PACER, and found something very interesting, and thinks that it hurts the plaintiffs case (I’m not sure if this is the big class action lawsuit in CA or not).
Three plaintiffs have their franchise agreements expiring some time in the near future. They asked the judge to grant them an injunction to continue the current franchise agreement rather than sign a new 10 year agreement and be responsible for a $30k remodel upgrade as required by the contract.
The judge denied the plaintiffs request and I found this statement he made interesting:
‘Here, Plaintiffs’ complaint seeks rescission and/or damages because Defendants allegedly fraudulently imposed a flawed, unprofitable and exploitive business model on Plaintiffs. Yet Plaintiffs now seek through this preliminary injunction to preserve that same unprofitable relationship’
Was this a bad move on the Plaintiff’s part? To me it sounds like some plaintiffs feel that they don’t have a problem with the agreement and could survive with the agreement.
Michael Webster
Apr 27, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Sean:
Man, you should know better than talk about resale values of corpses! Look, some of the new UPS stores or resales might be great buys - but nobody who got screwed is going to tell you that. My own personal view is that UPS is not the type of partner I would want as a franchisee.
Fedup: As you probably know, I used to be in many of the UPS/MBE boards. But I had to disengage because I was basically doing the same thing that Sean was doing: asking people to make statements that might have hurt their litigation chances. I miss being on those boards because I learned a lot - but my presence was not helping.
JD: I haven’t seen the action, but I would tend to agree with the Judge. You want out, you want out. If the business model is a fraud, then you have to get out. I am not a fan of injunctions in these type of cases. You want a declaration that you ought to be divorced: got for it.
OutToLunch
Apr 27, 2008 at 7:13 pm
When Sean originally offered his “throw down the guantlett” debate, I had assumed he meant the same thing the MBE’s and the UPSS have been doing for 5++ years now.
I never really thought he meant to send him “proof”. Just have a good debate!
And I am an MBE!
OutToLunch
Apr 27, 2008 at 7:23 pm
How about we start with this:
From November 2001 to January 2002 the eventually named test Cell 1 had a “test” of how retail rates did. Cell 1 went to “counter rates”. About 40% GPM. No extra advertising, just what the local coop did, in addition to the normal National Media.
From September 2002 to December 2002 UPS/MBE pulled out a full razzle dazzle “Gold Shield Test” with 3 “test cells”. Went to around 47% GPM
In Feb/March of 2003 we were given a Gold Shield Road Show “presentation”. Gee, it was so pretty!
The slide show had a presentation of how
Cell 1 (Remained named MBE) did
Cell 2 (Renamed to UPS/MBE) did
Cell 3 (the great and almight The UPS Store name) did
Here is what they compared:
Cell 1 (MBE’s) November 2001 to January 2002
VS November 2000 to January 2001
Cell 2 (Combo Name)
Oct 2002-Dec 2002 vs Oct 2001-Dec 2001
Cell 2 (Combo Name)
October 2002-Dec 2002 vs Oct 2001-Dec 2001
So, they have started the comparison points out from TOTALLY different months and years
This was out of the gate!
Next…Lets discuss the advertising in the various “test cells”
OutToLunch
Apr 27, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Lets do a quick discuss on the advertising in the test cells.
Cell 1 and Cell 2 (MBE Brand and co-Brand)
Those commericals were fairly similiar. Same theme, going by memory, same music.
Cell 2 (UPSS) had an ENTIRELY different commercials. No, it wasn’t just because it was a completely different brand.
Want to know the REAL why?
Cell 1 & 2 were done by MBE’s then advertising gang.(Donor I believe)
For Cell 3, all the advertising was done by the UPS advertising department (The Martin Agency, Whiteboard commercials anyone?)
If you really want to have level advertising, wouldn’t you just tweak each cell to keep it in harmony? In other words, not go radically different in 1 cell?
OutToLunch
Apr 27, 2008 at 7:33 pm
WOW–
My comments are waiting MODERATION?
For real?
I guess I will have to re-think doing this.
And here I thought it was going to be some fun!
Ask The Man That Owns One
Apr 27, 2008 at 11:24 pm
You want examples, locations, names, etc. etc.
They are out there, rather than hunt through Blue Mau Mau for the lost threads, go to google and search on “UPS/MBE”. You will get about 4500 items mostly articles that have been published in reputable newspapers. Some redundancy, admittedly, but certainly plenty of facts presented about the true situationAnd with the names, locations and other pertinent details.
What OutToLunch States is pretty much spot on,
The “test” was engineered to come out the way UPS wanted it to, not to be a fair and balanced comparison. Of course, the UPS Store ads were more compelling, more money was spent and a new name and an ad showing the MBE morph into
a UPS Store in front of your eyes certainly gets more attention that simply running a standard MBE ad with a tagline about lower prices direct from UPS. The Drew Carey type talking about big brown stepping it up a notch and we’ll be wearing the shorts in the spring certainly was cute and memorable even if the rest of the message was a bit misleading.
Of course they did not mention that the prices “direct from UPS” really represented dramatic amounts taken direct from the franchisees pocket or that the plan was a classic bait and switch scheme. Get them out of the line at the post office with the low price pitch and then “sell them up” to a higher priced air product that they may not need. The ability of the store owner to break even was highly dependent on the sale of air products instead of ground.
The average mandated retail price on ground was about $5 less with the cost to the store owner only about $1 less. Bottom line, the only way to make it was to make $4 less per package and make it up on volume. The volumes needed to double and this did not happen. Sure, some store s did actually double their UPS package volume but a substantial portion came from cannibalization of packages that would have been shipped Fedex or Post Office under the old successful MBE model. Fedex volumes went down by 100%. Postal volumes went down significantly.
The dog and pony show made a big deal of the so called consumer focus group research, once again the questions asked were engineered to get the answers they wanted and even then if you paid attention it was obvious that the conclusions were based on faulty assumptions.
Example: Focus group participants were asked how much they would pay to ship a package at an MBE, IF it cost $5 to ship at the post office, and assuming the post office and the MBE were equal distance from the consumer.
Supposedly, 4% would be willing to pay 20 to 40% more (i.e. $7 - $9.00. The implication was that MBE was losing the other 96% by its prices.
Supposedly, 3% would be willing to pay somewhere between $5.01 and $7. The implication being that by dropping the price to that range, the number of participants shipping at the UPS Store would jump from 4% to 7%, a 75% increase.
Flaw 1, at that time, there were approximately 3,500 MBES and over 38,000 post offices. Thus
the likelihood of meeting the equal distance criteria was minimal.
Flaw 2, at that time, there was no package being shipped by the post office for $5, so the number was purely hypothetical.
Flaw 3, it was not clear where in that $5 to $7 range the actual tipping point might lie. Therefore , the alleged potential increase was a sophisticated wild ass guess at best.
Flaw 4, due to residential surcharges and zones, there were precious few packages that would even fall in that $5 to $7 range if shipped by UPS at the “new retail rates”
Many consumers were misled by the ads, went to the UPS Store for the lower prices, were upsold to air services they did not need, went ahead and paid for this once and never came back.
sean
Apr 28, 2008 at 7:35 am
Flaw #5: Relying on what consumers say they will pay rather than actual live testing of what consumers will actually do.
OutToLunch
Apr 28, 2008 at 7:45 am
Flaw #6
Having your vendor (UPS) control your cost AND your retail.
These stores do upwards of 60-70% of their total Gross Sales in shipping
Flaw #7
Allowing the FAC and MAC to make decisions for you. These are NOT professional accountants nor media guru’s. They are JUST store owners like yourself, who UPS and MBE can pin all the fault on
Fedup
Apr 28, 2008 at 8:04 am
“Out to Lunch,” I respectfully suggest that #6 is actually #1 with a bullet.
“Flaw #6
Having your vendor (UPS) control your cost AND your retail. These stores do upwards of 60-70% of their total Gross Sales in shipping.”
Further, to think that emphasis on other profit centers–such as copying/document services or mailbox rental–will significantly shift this percentage, when the name over your door is The UPS Store, is simply naive, ill-advised, or, unfortunately, stupid. What you are says what you do, and if UPS Stores can’t achieve profitability with shipping UPS, you’re in trouble deep.
Dharma
Apr 28, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Sean,
First in order to make money you need money and many of us have maxed out every credit card we can get our hands on to continue these disasters (TUPSS). The money that does come in pays for the bills in the years before, some of the current ones and the 30% interest cc companies charge now which makes it tough to advertise, print, or anything else.
You seem to want to know a lot but why should you care. This is our fight and, not yours, and we are not going to just tell you what is going on. When it is all over, you will know. Until then, stop bugging us. We are not going to tell someone we don’t know what is going on just so UPS will now know what we know. Those in litigation are in the fight of their lives and pay money for that. Unless you are willing to pay for us, you don’t need to know anything.
You keep the pressure on so someone will finally snap and tell you things just so you shut up. I can see why Fedup blasted you. The best way to deal with people like you is to say nothing and let you have your say. You don’t own a TUPSS and therefor have no knowledge as to what is going on. So I say, ignore him people. He may not go away, but you will be less stressed at the end of the day if you don’t have to constantly answer his posts.
Why don’t you go bug Quiznos…
sean
Apr 28, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I asked if someone could name a well run store that failed because of the inherently flawed business model.
Rants. Raves. Insults. No example.
I think you’ve answered the question.
J Brown
Apr 28, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Sean,
We’re tired. We’ve tried these blogs ad-nauseum. It seems that the only truly effective tool that all of us have is the litigation itself, and none of us want to jeopardize a positive outcome for the sole reason of proving ourselves right on this forum. When and if the cases are sucessful, we will be vindicated.
Rita,
Lazy is the last thing these owners are (yes Sean, the word slackers was out of line). Many of these stores are the largest stores in the country, and have worked more convoluted MBE programs than you could shake a stick at. Now these owners work day and night at trying to make things right, while all along running their stores. Many of us have sacrificed family, friends, and any semblance of a social life, in this bitter struggle against one of the largest corporations in the world.
Lazy? Rita, go back to your mousepads, your pack and ship promise, and make sure that you sell that drop off a pen. The MAC will have another can’t lose program for you next year, if you click your heels three times. In the meantime, we’ve got work to do.
OutToLunch
Apr 28, 2008 at 6:23 pm
And here I thought you wanted a healthy debate.
My mistake..
OutToLunch
Apr 28, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Dharma,
In posts over on TB, you write well.
Please do so here. This is no different than when you write elsewhere
Ask The Man That Owns One
Apr 29, 2008 at 12:34 am
In my last post, I tried to put light on how to find the published Stories that will answer many of the questions. I did get a bit worked up and editorialized on the things that we who saw the writing on the wall were and are still upset about.
The only reason these things are still being brought up is that UPS has steadfastly refused to address the problems! In fact, whenever representatives of the franchises seek to have a rational discussion with UPS, they are rebuffed and told they better get counsel because MBE & UPS are not going to negotiate.
Anyway, enough of the rant. Anyone who wants to learn more than will ever be posted here, needs only to google UPS/MBE and will find more than ample articles from respected publications that detail what is more with the program, names, history, the works.
Fedup
Apr 29, 2008 at 5:07 am
Amen, “Ask the Man.” If Sean wants to learn more and is too lazy to do a little investative reporting, talking to store owners firsthand, he can google for it. It’s all there, and there’s more than plenty.
If any prospective franchisee doesn’t do the same as part of due diligence, they’re not likely to stumble across the info on this blog. I’d suggest that we follow our legals’ advice and go dark here.
sean
Apr 29, 2008 at 5:48 am
We’re tired. We’ve tried these blogs ad-nauseum.
I realize that, and it’s understandable that you guys are tired and frustrated.
May I suggest you take a breath and a step back for a moment?
A little respect goes a long way.
This is my blog. This is not a continuation of the flaming diatribes you may have going at BlueMauMau, Brainfuel, Brown or Platinum boards. Those serve that purpose.
Dharma & Fedup coming here, into into my house, and telling me to go bug someone else or get off my butt is even more laughable than it is rude. That OuttoLunch doesn’t realize how inappropriate dragging out the same old dusty focus group data and the fact that you still think I called you lazy slackers indicates you haven’t even taken the time read enough of the blog to understand the tone, content or focus of FranchisePick.com. You guys are the blogging equivalent of guests who stop be, spill chips on the rug, then split as soon as the free beer’s gone.
Maybe part of your weariness comes from travelling around in a pack of the same people, blasting the same tired arguments into any box with a “Submit” button.
People like FedUps have no interest in exchanging ideas or engaging in civil discussion, just blasting out the same thing over and over toward anyone unlucky enough to be nearby. And while the unjustified arrogance and humorous attempts at appearing sophisticated and elitist, even baiting her is not worth the effort.
If you’re afraid to talk, why are you here?
Those who want to rehash the same old stuff are free to start their own blogs and bore each other to sleep. If your lawyers won’t let you talk, or if a wrong word will jeopardize 5 years, your future, your big important case… what the hell are you doing here telling us that you can’t talk? Go watch American Idol. Go rearrange your packing peanuts.
If you’re interested in exchanging ideas without fear of getting your pee-pee whacked for it, please stay.
If you’re as sick as I am of these self-important blowhards who must make every conversation about them and turn every forum into showcase for their self-righteous pontifications, then let’s do something worth our time.
Taking a gander with new eyes might be worth trying
J Brown and Ask The Man, you are both reasonable and both weary. I’d suggest that the weariness is from going down the same track over and over. Maybe you need to indulge in a mental change of pace, some new ideas, some fresh thinking.
Here are some:
Could a few minutes helping others renew your spirit?
Perhaps you’d find it rewarding to use your hard lessons to help others. I’ve pointed out that the enormous, well-funded UPS PR machine is actively recruiting new franchise owners. Prospectives come to FranchisePick.com (which is ranked as high as UPS’ site for “UPS Store Franchise” in Google) when doing their research. For 3-4 posts I have tried to get someone to post a cogent explanation and brief example of why the business model serves UPS, but not the franchisee, and even in good conditions they will likely be only marginally profitable. Many frustrated, even bankrupt, franchisees on this site have had their spirits renewed by helping others avoid decisions with devastating consequences.
“the only truly effective tool that all of us have is the litigation itself” Are you sure?
Does the lawsuit make you feel more - or less - empowered? It seems to me that litigation - meant to be liberating or provide vindication - is possibly more imprisoning than the franchise relationship itself.
I’m sure this is an idea that will draw more ire - or get me suspected of being a covert UPS operative (Hanoi Sean), but think about it. Has it made you feel empowered, other than momentarily? Or has it made you more angry, more bitter, more frustrated with the long, drawn process, endless paperwork and legal bills… having to read all those engaging legal documents, spend all that time in victim mode?
It sure doesn’t seem too liberating to me. You’re afraid to even talk about your situation, right? I know there are lots of legal reasons beyond my limited comprehension. After all, the legal system would have no vested interest in wanting to keep all communication in within courtroom appearances or in volumes of documents drafted at, what, $300 - $400 an hour?
Anyone familiar with the huge legal bill the still-unknown Ben & Jerry’s incurred when they sued Pillsbury? They didn’t. They waged a low-budget “What’s the Doughboy Afraid of?” campaign that forced a settlement and propelled them to national fame. I’m sure their lawyers strongly advised against it.
An anti-puppy mill advocate just got many millions of dollars of publicity and prompted a series of internationally broadcasted exposes. Cost? $10,000 for a billboard placed a block from Oprah’s office. I’m sure his lawyer’s would have frowned on such an idea.
I’m sure going public would jeopardize the millions you’ll each receive to your years spent under the angry cloud, but it would feel great, wouldn’t it?
Take Responsibility.
Consider admitting to yourself that no one made you buy an MBE franchise. Wasn’t the possibility of MBE being bought out by an evil, oppressive overlord one of the risk factors? But you did it anyway, right? If you then converted to the UPS brand, that was also your decision, right? The fact that they could be lying was one of the risk factors, but you did it anyway?
Taking responsibility for your own decisions could prove to be even more liberating than your lawsuit. Or not. But it’s worth trying, if only once.
Michael Webster
Apr 29, 2008 at 7:02 am
Sean and others;
Let me make an observation, which is relevant to all IndFA’s.
There is one valuable asset you all have: user generated content.
You have proven it here. Traffic created by your posts allows B5Media to sell advertising here - from which they in turn pay Sean to write.
Any IndFA could own their own online network devoted to solving the consumer problems with their services.
The network is created by independent operators offering their suggestions, solutions and observations that have value to consumers.
The network over time will generate traffic, and traffic pays.
All of this could be done completely independently of the merits of the ongoing lawsuits.
This is only an outline of a very difficult job -but why not get paid for sharing with consumers? If you have time to complain, you have time to make contribute and make money.
None of which is to suggest that the very real complaints against UPS are less real, less important or anything like that.
Ask The Man That Owns One
Apr 29, 2008 at 7:53 am
I do not think the purpose of posting here is to tilt at wind mills or prove who is right or wrong.
Many times, we are tempted to post just to prove we won’t take it laying down without a fight.
I would like to point out that it is very difficult for anyone to post the details of a particular location that failed and to prove that the location “followed the program”. The person who knows best may have been silenced by the franchisor or litigation or simply so wounded as to not want to talk about it.
On the other hand, it would seem easy enough for someone who has followed the program and suceeded to share the facts of that success. The franchisor is not going to dispute their story. The franchisor is not going to try to intimidate them into keeping the light under a basket.
Why then has no one posted the success stories other than to vaguely allude that some hard working store owners are making a good living.
What is a good living? Let’s see some dollars and cents, a little comparison to a middle to upper management income plus a reasonable return on the at risk investment.
Come on, John, or anybody else, define success!
sean
Apr 29, 2008 at 9:47 am
Why then has no one posted the success stories other than to vaguely allude that some hard working store owners are making a good living.
I’m sure they’re painting a vivid picture of the success to a group of franchise prospects right now. I’m sure the pages of Entrepreneur, their #11 ranking, and their impressive name is accomplishing what they need it to.
And since those with the knowledge are too afraid (for many legitimate and understandable reasons) to provide a clear, compelling warning to them, UPS has little reason to join the argument.
Why should they? They not only hold the cards, they own the deck.
Fedup
Apr 29, 2008 at 10:03 am
Another very worthwhile insight from Michael Webster: “Traffic created by your posts allows B5Media to sell advertising here - from which they in turn pay Sean to write.”
“Ask the Man” has again suggested that if there are really success stories to be heard, that “John” or others provide the details. They haven’t, because they can’t.
On the other hand, it’s been made clear that the lawyers want those in the lawsuits to button up ’till the shooting is over and the smoke clears…don’t make yourself a target. Again, Michael Webster has agreed.
If a prosepective franchisee wants the whole story, it’s as close as google.
Bottom line, apparently, Sean keeps stirring the pot ’cause it puts money in his pocket for blogging.
ASK THE MAN THAT OWNS ONE
Apr 29, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Sean said:
>>I’m sure they’re painting a vivid picture of the success to a group of franchise prospects right now. I’m sure the pages of Entrepreneur, their #11 ranking, and their impressive name is accomplishing what they need it to.
And since those with the knowledge are too afraid (for many legitimate and understandable reasons) to provide a clear, compelling warning to them, UPS has little reason to join the argument.
Why should they? They not only hold the cards, they own the deck.<<
Sean, I am a little confused about your response.
I don’t know that anyone asked UPS to respond here.
I only asked the righteous franchise who accused us of devaluing the franchise to back up his vague claims of success.
UPS does not own any of the franchises out right and has no clue as to how to run one.
We want to hear from John who claims to own at least three seasoned locations ( all in business more than 3 years) to quantify his success.
A few questions have been asked, let me add three more!
John, how many of your locations are operating at the million dollar level?
In fact, do all of your locations combined generate STR in excess of $1,000,000 annually?
How many locations do you own, I understand that several indicates more than two, but how many more?
Michael Webster
Apr 29, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Fedup; I actually wasn’t slagging Sean for stirring it up. Rather I was suggesting a new focus for all of you, which would allow you to compartmentalize the lawsuit.
Fedup
Apr 29, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Michael, your previous comment that I was referencing was the following:
“Fedup: As you probably know, I used to be in many of the UPS/MBE boards. But I had to disengage because I was basically doing the same thing that Sean was doing: asking people to make statements that might have hurt their litigation chances.”
In sum, that’s the biggest bone I have to pick with Sean.
As far as your worthwhile suggestion of us creating our own online network, I agree that it would be a difficult job–and bigger than any of us have time to take on. It’s one thing to take a moment and loose a salvo of rebuttal at someone whose ill-advised suggestion would work to our deteriment, or at an individual like John, who posts unsupported assertions.
It’s quite another thing, and more like a full-time job, to field the resources that another online network–in addition to at least three that already exist for our franchisees–would require. Realistically, I’m of the view that operating our businesses well demands a high level of time and effort, and precludes such a venture.
Michael Webster
Apr 29, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Fedup;
I agree that Sean should not be soliciting, even in ignorance, statements which may bite your behind in litigation.
I hope that I was sufficiently clear about that.
Here is what I disagree about, your statement:
“Realistically, I’m of the view that operating our businesses well demands a high level of time and effort, and precludes such a venture.”
If you have time to slag Sean and post on other boards, you have time to make user generated content work for your association.
Be happy to talk about offline, or get Mike R to talk with at the upcoming AAFD meetings.
sean
Apr 29, 2008 at 6:07 pm
The once-credible Michael Webster said: I agree that Sean should not be soliciting, even in ignorance, statements which may bite your behind in litigation.
Jeez, Webster, I didn’t think even you would suck up to this one just because she’s got some kind attorney-worship thing going on.
For the thousandth time, my world and my vast global audience (many of whom will take a bullet for me… or attack on demand) does not consist solely of UPS litigants.
Should I never say: has anyone eaten at McDonald’s lately? for fear that someone out there might be involved in a court case hinging on their testimony that they have not visited a McDonald’s recently and that they might blow their entire case - and 5 years of hard work - by momentarily losing control and blurting out “Me! I have eaten at a McDonald’s lately! Twice, in fact, in the last week alone!”?
I’m certain that MW’s technologically superior nemesis (initials B.S.) would have grasped this concept, and would not have stoop to pandering to a groupie with stalking potential, no matter how litigation-abundant her bold future seems to be.
Michael Webster
Apr 29, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Sean writes: “I’m certain that MW’s technologically superior nemesis (initials B.S.) would have grasped this concept, and would not have stoop to pandering to a groupie with stalking potential, no matter how litigation-abundant her bold future seems to be.”
Grouping stalking! I resemble that remark!
But actually, as you know Sean, there is no litigation abundant future in MBE/UPS. All the good lawyers have already taken it up.
I just don’t think that we can reasonably ask people to comment in public on things that their attorneys have told them to shut up about.
This litigation appears to me too rough to ask for for too much public comment on it.
Fedup
Apr 29, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Then, Michael, we agree to disagree. Respectfully, articulate content is one thing. Administration is another. I do the former, have done both, reject the latter, too much clerical.
I feel “user-generated content” is available via google and sites like Blue Mau Mau, which have a wealth of history and content, and have no particular interest in creating a redundancy.
Honestly, my primary reason for being here is to caution against falling into the trap Sean is urging us toward by baiting us to make statements that could work against us.
Michael Webster
Apr 29, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Fedup; No worries -disagreements are the staff of life.
Fedup
Apr 29, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Jeeze, Sean–ref your last post. Ya really shouldn’t go near the keyboard after that last martini.
sean
Apr 29, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Honestly, my primary reason for being here is to caution against falling into the trap Sean is urging us toward by baiting us to make statements that could work against us.
I knew there was a reason. I promise that I will not solicit any comments or show any interest in anything any UPS litigant has to say. Your work here is done. Godspeed.
Rita Wilson
Apr 30, 2008 at 8:58 am
My position still stands– The disgruntled UPS owners would rather whine than go out and try and drum up business. You are expending so much negative energy here. Go out and get some corporate accounts, build customer loyalty, EARN the business–not just think it should be handed to you by the parent company. Advertising in one thing. Grass roots marketing is another. Shut down the computer. Quit calling fellow franchisees to complain and GO CREATE the change you want to see with YOUR BUSINESS you are responsible for.
sean
Apr 30, 2008 at 9:25 am
Rita:
You make a good point and Fedups keeps providing a compelling example. If franchisees have a legitimate gripe and actionable complaint, that’s fine. They can pursue it separately. They don’t need to poison their own well and sabotage their own business to prove their point.
In fact, they’re proving the opposite. Fedups has spent a day and a half here basically saying nothing except that she can’t say anything. Not only is that time that could have been spent servicing accounts or prospecting for new customers, it seems unlikely that her negativity does not affect her employees and, ultimately, customers. I have seen many negative comments from UPS franchisees about their drop-off customers, as if it is their fault that they want to ship as cheaply as possible.
Wouldn’t it be great to see a UPS franchisee forum dedicated to making the best of a bad situation, finding new and better ways to provide value to customers that makes them willing to pay more because of the benefits The UPS Store franchisees provide to their business.
While their complaints against UPS seem well-founded and should be rectified, I also think that many of their comments indicate that they think they are in a commodity business when they are, in fact, in a service business.
To succeed in a service business, you’ve got to embrace a true dedication to serving your customers. I may be wrong, but I just don’t see a lot of evidence of that.
Chris
Apr 30, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Sean & Rita,
Some confusion comes in because there are actually 3 different types of franchisees within the MBE system. 1. There are the Mail Boxes Etc. owners. These folks bought into a successful franchise and choose to remain with that business model. 2. There are previous Mail Boxes Etc. owners that converted to The UPS Store business model. 3. Those franchisees that bought into The UPS Store franchise.
Lets look at a current situation. Arby’s now owns Wendy’s. What if Arby’s now mandates that all Wendy’s restaurants will become Arby’s? What if a Wendy’s owner prefers to sell fresh square hamburgers instead of roast beef sandwiches? Should they just go out and promote their new restaurant and quit complaining? Are they just lazy and won’t work the system? At least Arby’s had been a franchisor previously and UPS was not. UPS had no track record with The UPS Store business model.
When you say that The UPS Store owners are a hard group to love, I think you need to distinguish which group you’re talking about. Just because they got bought by UPS shouldn’t allow UPS to pull the rug out from under their successful business that they have invested their blood, sweat and tears.
Michael Webster
Apr 30, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Sean wrote: “I have seen many negative comments from UPS franchisees about their drop-off customers, as if it is their fault that they want to ship as cheaply as possible.”
Sean, that would be dead on -except for that is not the complaint.
The complaint is this: UPS tells the drop-offs that a) all they need to do is fill in online the mailing info, and b) just drop-off the package.
The problem is that the drop-offs don’t have simple mailings and too often they pay a low fee to UPS, but the extra service is done by the franchisee who was to eat his or her time.
Let me give you an analogy. Suppose that I could get a taxi from my home to downtown for a flat rate of $5. The timed run is $25.
The brokerage, UPS, offers the online service of $5 to people who show up at my taxi stand with a chit that I have to take.
Good for them for getting downtown cheaply. Good for UPS for offering a great deal.
Really bad for me, who has to eat $20 and make it up on the volume.
That in a nutshell is the UPS business model for its franchisees, plus a little churning on the side.
sean
Apr 30, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Michael: Understood completely. My point is that it’s not the customer’s fault that they’re getting hosed by their franchisor. If the franchisee’s frustration toward UPS is misdirected at the customers, which is understandable, even predictable, total failure becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Regular customer Joe HomeBiz comes in 20 minutes before closing with an armload of 5 boxes with the shoe samples he regularly sends to prospective customers. Last month he would have paid $7 per package for the franchisee to ship. But now UPS hooked him up with his own lil account & home printer and he saves a few bucks by bringing them in with his own preprinted labels. Only some aren’t sealed correctly and the Zee has to give him a packing lesson that backs up the line, and has to give him free tape to boot. Zee now gets $1 a box, and rakes in $5 total. Last month, it would have been a $30 transaction, but his own franchisor undercut him and made the store Zee financed with his life savings and home equity their personal, staffed drop box.
If I were Zee, I’d be livid, flaming hot, potentially violent. And I’d do a slow burn when I see my ex-favorite customer clattering through the door to waste my time and pull the bread from my kid’s mouths. Maybe the whole staff rolls their eyes and sighs every time they see the big oaf coming in. Maybe some days I don’t even try to hide my disdain for Joe HomeBiz. I’m hoping he’ll go somewhere else and don’t care if he knows it.
I suspect that’s a common scenario, judging from many of the ways frustrated UPS Store franchisees talk about their customers.
What did Joe do wrong? He probably has no idea what’s happened. To him UPS is UPS. All he knows is the service there sucks and he starts dropping off at Staples, where he does his copying, photo printing, etc.
Who does this hurt? Not Joe, who’s used to crappy service and is saving a few bucks. Not Staples, who keeps the copying biz, etc. and get’s the $5 per trip. Not UPS, who still gets the shipping no matter what. It only hurts Zee, who lost the $5, plus the potential for whatever non-shipping business Joe could use them for; it hurt the store morale, because now staff thinks it’s ok to regard some customers with disdain; and it does real damage to the Zee’s future, because if they manage to get UPS to bump their share or cut them in on the home business, they’ve lost that customer for good.
I speak from experience. I was working with Unishipper’s, a DHL reseller. We shipped our work product to them in their prepaid flat-rate overnight delivery envelopes.
When called for a pickup, the DHL driver was really nice, as usual, until he saw that it was the Unishipper’s DHL envelopes, which is less margin for DHL. He immediately started treated my staff like crap. Our stuff never got there when it should have, which the local Uni rep said isn’t uncommon.
I’ve never used DHL direct again. We used to use them exclusively for International, but we’d pay more to go with a competitor. My opinion: Their profit margin is not my responsibility nor my problem. My opinion: Screw DHL. Jerks.
Guess what, Zee? That’s exactly what Joe HomeBiz thinks of your UPS Store.
Michael Webster
Apr 30, 2008 at 5:34 pm
You know that I have answer to this, don’t you.
Mostly, I agree with the scenario as laid out.
Ok, I will give you answer - run the scenario as negotiation problem with the UPS franchisees playing all parts and see what comes up as solution.
Repeat, rinse, repeat until you have a solution.
sean
Apr 30, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Michael Webster: I’m impressed with how fast you read that. But I’m afraid your answer is as cryptic as my last comments last night - when I was accused of being drunk yet was, alas, cold sober.
Chris: You make an excellent point and make the distinction that I attempted to make to Fedups, but got sidetracked by trying to get her to go away.
My request for an example was really most intended for the third group, but kept getting answered by the angriest of the second group. I was hoping for someone, other than me, to give the scenario we just ran through to show how - despite the high profile name & ad campaigns - this business model is not constructed for attractive franchisee margins.
Since UPS gave the franchisees a name that means “shipping,” then told them to sell photocopying, an even better example than Wendy’s/Arby’s would be if Shoe Town bought Wendy’s and jacked up their costs so they only made a dime a burger. When the Wendy’s franchisees screamed, the franchisor would point to the new display racks they made them buy and say “To make up the lost profit, just upsell them to a pair of loafers!”
Michael Webster
Apr 30, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Sean;
The scenario you have described is a 3 person bargaining game: shipper, UPS, and customer.
The current “solution” has the customer getting crappy service, UPS get some but not all it could get, and the shipper/franchisee getting nothing.
This is a bad bargain for everyone.
There are lots of professional negotiators which will take this game on and improve everyone’s outcome.
neekoh
May 1, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I was looking for information on franchising UPS stores and glad I found this.
My personal experience with UPS stores has been bad. I have visited two different stores in the past to drop off packages. In the first instance, I needed a box to put the shipment inside. The store gouged me on the box and even charged me for tape. In the second store, I only needed one 14″ piece of tape and the store tried to charge me $1 for the tape (I ended up going to the grocery store in the same strip mall and buying a whole roll of tape for $2.99. On the other hand, FedEx Kinkos gives boxes, tape, markers, staples, paper, etc. for free to use. So now I know why customer service is so bad at UPS stores — no one is making money so the owners are nickel-and-diming me on tape. (if you’d rather be in the tape and box business instead of the serving customers business, that’s probably why you’re losing money)
bite me
May 18, 2008 at 1:15 pm
All the owners of the places are idiots and they deserve to lose money. The business model is stupid and they should have known it from the beginning. Business owners get their packages picked up by the courier, and savvy internet biz people use online shipping because it’s cheaper than retail. So basically all these stores either become big drop boxes, or they have to compete with the USPS which is cheaper. If it was such a good idea, why didn’t UPS do it themselves?
ASK THE MAN THAT OWNS ONE
May 21, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Actually UPS tried to do it themselves and failed!
The business model is stupid, but not all people saw that!
It is unkind, unnecessary and untrue to call anyone idiots!
The stores provide a convenience and service level that many consumers are willing to pay for and can get nowhere else.
The problem with the UPS Stores is not that the prices are too high, the problem is that the prices are too low.
AND if you took time to check, you would find that the USPS is not always cheaper.
FranMan59
Oct 30, 2008 at 3:39 pm
It seems that prior to the sale MBE was a much happier family. We used to have great time at our reuniouns and area meetings. I think that Tony D. did a great job in building the company. I believe it started to unravel when purchased by USOP. The stock dropped and eventually went off the big boards. UPS saw a great time to add brick & mortar, control the vendors and add hubs for pick off drop off sites. At one time there was a full time account executive located at the cornerstone office. UPS really built that relationship and aided the franchisee in any way possible as far as accomadation and in contest with FedEx and the other vendors. That went out the door when they purchased MBE. Many centers had cultivated a large client base and the stores were known to user friendly and family operated. At first there was great excitment when the sale was made known in Las Vagas during the reunion. I do belive that the leadership during the time knew what was down the road for the franchisee not to mention the large payouts that were made to the executive team who assisted in the transaction. The previous mgt style was hands on prior to Mr. Amos arrival. After the sale it was a real culture shock to all mbe’ers. During Tony’s time the company went public and then become a private firm through the sale with USOP. The worst thing they did was change the name of the centers. It was a well established, customer friendly and brand loyal name. When I think of the UPS store I think of sending someone a package. It is not being promoted as the small business owners business solution, use of a mailbox with a address that does not include a PO number. I am starting to ramble but just a few thoughts that came to mind. I know for a fact that are over 400 centers involved in the class action suit and that a Federal Judge has certified the case. There are always some who you cannot please. I belive that Amos and crew sold to the highest bidder without concern for the so called “franchise family” we were. Thanks for the space. Wish I has spell check!!!
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