Is The UPS Store a Good Franchise Opportunity?
Craig Hsueh over at Blue MauMau posted a story and a link to an article citing a study naming the UPS Store as the “Most Competitive U.S. Retailer”According to the article:
The UPS Store has the biggest competitive advantage among retailers in the United States this year, according to a new study released by the NRF Foundation, the research and education arm of the National Retail Federation….
…The UPS Store (NYSE: UPS - News) tops the list, followed by Dollar Tree, Dollar General, Walgreens, Kenneth Cole, Petco, Kohl’s, Target, Men’s Wearhouse and PetSmart….
The UPS Store franchise program has been embroiled in controversy and lawsuits from franchisees who contend their franchisor unfairly competes with its franchisees.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? IS THE UPS STORE A GOOD FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY? Leave a comment and tell us what you think.
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105 opinions for Is The UPS Store a Good Franchise Opportunity?
JoAnn
Feb 2, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Sean,
Just because they have some competitive advantage, does NOT mean it is a good business opportunity for someone.
Take a look at the numerous lawsuits that have been filed. They are public record.
Les Stewart
Feb 2, 2007 at 1:34 pm
I have dealt with several former investors of UPS and MBE over my franchisee advocacy career: both in the U.S. and in Canada.
If they could, I believe, they would unanimously say…
They are lot wiser about how aggressively some franchisors operate to suppress free speech regarding the issues of encroachment, support and tied buying.
Les Stewart
Feb 2, 2007 at 1:38 pm
I have dealt with several former investors of UPS and MBE over my franchisee advocacy career: both in the U.S. and in Canada.
If they could, I believe, they would unanimously say…
They might be able to talk about how confidentiality “agreements” can be used to radically distort business risks for future investors.
scott
Feb 2, 2007 at 2:49 pm
The “advantage” if ONLY for UPS- not the franchisee’s. BEWARE, potential investors! UPS gives better discounts to Remax realtors than they do to the UPS stores. The UPS Store owners have been told, by UPS, that they CANNOT expect shipping to be their major profit center. Franchisees are now expected to invest heavily in printing equipment and to “beat the streets” for printing business to be profitable. If you want to be a printer, buy a printing franchise.
ups sos
Feb 2, 2007 at 3:12 pm
The Ups store franchise is a scam, i tell you this from experience and have numerous awards from the corporate office for my sales to back it up. If you want to know if it is a good investment pick up the phone and call 20 centers and you can see for yourself.
Anna
Feb 2, 2007 at 4:07 pm
UPS is a unique franchise as it is the only one I know of that directly competes with the owners of the stores. When you think of who owns a UPS store, what is the first thing that comes to mind…UPS of course. They like it that way. People own them. People with bills, children, mortgages, a life. Owning this business sucks the life out of you and unless you are wealthy or have a spouse that can entirely support the personal bills as well as the store bills for at least 3 years, but more likely 5 or 6, then don’t get one. You pay a lot of money for the store and it just becomes one big drop off box for UPS packages. Drop offs will at some point exceed your paying customers and then it is all down hill from there. Save your money, don’t franchise. Put your retirement into a good savings or Vanguard account or something. The UPS store is not a good investment unless you need an income tax deduction.
Of course UPS tops the list of that study, they don’t use their own money to open them. What a great way to do business and one of the business world’s number one rule…use someone’s elses money and not your own…and they are the kings at it.
Mike Rodriguez
Feb 2, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Go to the website and read the Executive Summary of a evaluation and grading report of the UPS Store Franchise Agreement prepared by the AAFD. It is rated among the worse for favoring the interests of the Franchisor (UPS)at the expense of those of the Franchisee (You & Me). It is estimated that at least 50-60% of all UPS Stores are losing money.
DOA UPS STORE
Feb 2, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Corporate greed always makes a good investment for the franchisor(ups/mbe). Purhased a profitable store in 04 only to close it down in 05 is what you can expect with ups. Heaven forsake if you purchase a new one and the odds are very high you will not break even durning your first three years. Now lets do the calculations 250k investment,three years of financial support 150k, no salary to suport your family = homeless in a card board box(from leftover inventory) underneath some highway! Lets not forget all those personal guareentees you will have to sign. That is the reality of owning a ups store. This post has a 99% truth rating. MY STORY IS REALITY!
DAVE
Feb 2, 2007 at 5:17 pm
THE UPSSTORE IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR UNITED PARCEL SERVICE TO OBTAIN A RETAIL PRESENCE AT THE EXPENSE OF THE INVESTOR (FRANCHISEE). ALBEIT THAT “INVESTMENT” OF ABOUT A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS SHOWS MOST INVESTORS A RETURN ON INVESTMENT LESS THAN THE CURRENT MONEY MARKET FUND YIELD (SAY 5% PA). DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND HERE, MOST STORES ARE UNABLE TO SELL FOR THE COST OF INVESTMENT (ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU FACTOR OWNER HOURS WORKED WITHOUT RECOMPENSE) WITHIN THREE YEARS: AND THREE YEARS IS THE TIME IT TAKES FOR MOST NEW FRANCHISEE’S TO REALISE HOW FAR THEY HAVE BEEN MISLED. SO WHEN THE REALISATION SETS IN, & THE FRANCHISEE TRIES TO SELL, CURRENT MARKETING CONDITIONS ARE SUCH THAT STORES HAVE BEEN ADVERTISED ON EBAY FOR LESS THAN HALF THE INITIAL INVESTMENT.
WHEN THIS FRANCHISE HAD THE DESIO FAMILY AS THE FRANCHISOR; THE FAILURE RATE WAS MINISCULE.. UNDER USOP AND THE MARINE THAT INCREASED, BUT STORES STILL MADE MONEY. NOW THAT UPS DICTATE METHODS, AND OTHER CARRIERS REFUSE TO DEAL WITH THE FRANCHISEE DUE TOO THE BUSINESS NAME, THE FRANCHISE HAS BEEN ALTERED WHEREBY THE UPSSTORE HAS BECOME A DROP LOCATION; PAID FOR AT THE EXPENSE OF THE FRANCHISEE! wHO THINKS OF THE ETCETERA (PROFIT CENTERS OTHER THAN SHIPPING) WHEN GOING TO A UPS STORE?
IN CLOSING IF YOUR FRANCHISOR DICTATES YOU USE THEIR (SHIPPING)NAME, & TAKES MOST OF THE PROFIT FROM SHIPPING… HOW
CAN ANYONE MAKE A PROFIT ON ANYTHING ELSE… LET ALONE HAVE TO GET “PERMISSION” TO BUY ANYTHING FROM ANYONE !
ONE FINAL THOUGHT, IF THE UPSSTORE FRANCHISE IS SUCH A GREAT DEAL, AND UPS OFFER FRANCHISE FINANCING… FIND OUT WHETHER THEY FINANCE THEIR OWN FRANCHISE!
cgpeanut
Feb 2, 2007 at 5:31 pm
I, along with several owners of the UPSS called the researcher that presented this paper. Point # one UPSS never even met the criteria. TUPSS has not been in existance for 5 years. UPS’s, as the parent company,financials were used to qualify this. And most importantly the study is not even meassuring competitive edge. No where in that study is it saying the UPS store has a competitive edge over its competition. For the life of me I never could understand what the purpose of the study was.
Bill
Feb 2, 2007 at 7:33 pm
UPS is not a retailer. The only experience UPS had at being a retailer was a failure, check your facts on that. UPS bought Mail Boxes Etc. and has now either 1) bankrupt 2) sent into litigation or 3) churned the entire network they originally bought. The “retailers” are dissatisfied! The “competitive advantage” is UPS sucking the life out of small business owners.
Ben H.
Feb 3, 2007 at 2:14 am
Wasn’t there another company that lied to investors, stole their retirement and cooked the books to have it seem they were profitable? Oh yeah!!!! ENRON!!
The UPS Store is biggest hoax since Enron.I wish when they told me when I became a UPS store I would be competeing against the internet,office depot,staples and UPS itself. I’m sure that was just a small oversight.
THE UPS STORE/FATAL ATTRACTION
Feb 4, 2007 at 10:17 am
The above heading says it all! No further comments are needed.
Susan
Feb 5, 2007 at 9:25 am
If anyone reads this article and is seriously condsidering purchasing one of these franchises they need to go to thebrownboard.com or talkbrown.com. Listen to what the actual franchisees have to say. Our biggest competitor is our franchisor. At least if I had bought a Burger King I wouldn’t have to compete with corporate to sale Whoppers.
sean
Feb 5, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Susan:
I took you up on your invitation and registered at talkbrown.com. I had read through only a few posts before receiving a nasty email from someone questioning my right to be there.
I don’t know that much about your situation or the state of the litigation, but I can tell you that if you want the media or public opinion to understand or be sympathetic to your cause, you can’t attack the people who are trying to understand the situation. Any other writer or blogger who was accosted for trying to understand your plight would dismiss at least the Brown Board members as an angry mob of malcontents, not businesspeople with legitimate complaints.
cgpeanut
Feb 5, 2007 at 1:12 pm
sean
will try to keep the troops in line. Don’t be scared off. We aren’t malcontents, just tired and in many cases financially ruined. Young couples with young families, losing everything, 200,000 dollar investiments that will take them years and years to recover from, and Ma brown going about business as normal.
You know what else makes it sickening. go to the Fran-Vets website. UPS is barking these to our Iraqi veterans. Makes me sick.
sean
Feb 5, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Is there a good summary of the dispute to-date online? What is the status of the litigation?
What’s the solution that franchisees are pushing for?
Susan
Feb 5, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Please go back to talkbrown.
I left you a message over there.
Thanks
Les Stewart
Feb 7, 2007 at 8:46 am
I am interested in the VetFran program.
I would appreciate program participants in answering the following questions:
1. Have you achieved your financial objectives? yes or no
If no, what are:
a. your total personal net worth decrease to date,
b. over how many months.
2. Did you use an SBA 7a Loan to finance?
3. Was a sales agent or 3rd party involved when you signed up?
In Canada, I have identified something called Predatory Franchise Lending. More details can be found on FranchiseFool.com. Thanks.
cgpeanut
Feb 7, 2007 at 9:50 am
Les,
Since UPS converted the Canadian MBE do you have any info on their profitability. I would like to hear how the 250+ centers are fairing.
I too have been interested in the VETFran program. If you have any info Please contact me over at talkbrown or the brownboard.
Les Stewart
Feb 7, 2007 at 10:58 am
CG Parent,
Tried to hook up with you on talkbrown [you Calling Michael Webster]
I’m a klutz today. Too much snow shoveling.
Les Stewart
Twain
Feb 7, 2007 at 3:55 pm
I bought a UPS Store franchise and had to shut it down just to stop the losses. It is true that the franchise has a major competitive advantage - for UPS, not the franchisee. UPS has profited handsomely and has a retail presence paid for by small mom and pop retailers. I have never, never met a franchisee in the game for more than 6 months who was thrilled with his or her decision to invest in one of these money pits. I challenge anyone considering one of these stores to do due dilligence and call 20 or more store owners and ask them if they are happy. If they say they are, ask if they are interested in selling their store. Many owners are desparate to sell and won’t disclose the thruth. You would be lucky to find one owner who has had their store for more than a year that will say they are happy and won’t sell.
IMPOSSIBLE
Feb 8, 2007 at 8:50 am
It is immmpossible to do fair due dilligence. UPS/MBE will not allow it.That is privilaged and confidential information. That is at least true up to the 2005 FOC AGREEMENTS. Does anyone think that any of the area franchissees are going to tell you the truth,whole truth and nothing but thr truth so help them g-d. Greed always overrides honesty in this franchise. Sorry to say this is how i feel being involved in this scam. THE TRUTH STINKS IN THIS SITUATION
Lee
Mar 16, 2007 at 11:24 pm
I’m a Vet who has paid the initial UPS Store franchise fee, and although I thought I had performed “due dilligence” before making the commitment, I fear that I may be embarking on an expensive journey to nowhere. Does anyone know how hard the franchisor “comes down on you” if you decide to bail before signing a lease or legal franchise documents? I’d rather take a hard hit now than a knockout punch later.
frozenokiewi
Mar 21, 2007 at 7:06 am
Run now while you can…I have been doing this for 6 years changed from MBE to UPS Store in 2003. We have two stores and neither can break even. You cannot get out once you are in…eat your loss and run for the hills! Bid on some oceanfront in Arizona it would be a far more entertaining waste of money. PLEASE back out now.
cgpeanut
Mar 21, 2007 at 7:24 am
take the hit now from a fellow owner. this franchise is a nightmare at this time.
ACE
Mar 21, 2007 at 8:43 am
Listen to your gut, don’t get sucked in any deeper.
Take everything you got in writing and all contemperaneous notes you made as to what you were told to a good attorney and see if feels you have basis to rescind all agreements and get your deposit back.
If MBE is convinced that there is some risk to them, they will fold and give your money back. In any event, don’t throw good money after bad by going forward with leasing a location, going to UPS University and all that crap.
The loss of a deposit pales in comparision to what you can lose going forward in something you do not have confidence in. The losses can be more than financial.
Jim Brown
Mar 21, 2007 at 8:57 am
We’re not being negative, we’re just trying to save as many people as we can from our own fate. Think of owning a ups store as being an indentured servant: Working for free for your master. Do whatever you need to to stay far, far away.
Won'tBeFooledAgain
Mar 21, 2007 at 9:58 am
Lee, call a lot of UPS Store owners; don’t just talk to the ones that the folks at UPS/MBE recommend. Talk to some that are in locations similar to those you’re considering, and have been in business at least three years to five years (That’s when reality starts to set in.) You needn’t have lengthy, in-depth conversations, though that can’t hurt. But be sure and ask the simple question: “If you had this to do all over again, would you?”
Please post your findings…and your ultimate decision. And good luck on your mission.
James Dunn
Mar 21, 2007 at 10:20 am
You should count your blessings. I wish I had ran and only lost the $7500 fee. These store have no value. After you beg and borrow 300k before you go out of business you will find yourself broke and destitute. When you try to sell you will find how worthless these stores are. I think it’s a sin that UPS is targeting vets now. These criminals have no soul.
george n
Mar 22, 2007 at 7:51 am
What more can be said here?
I am a former ups store owner. Bought a profitable store in 2004 and started trying to sell it less than a year later. UPS is your biggest competitor, they control your cost and max resale on shipping. That says it all for me.
I lost almost 100k of my hard earned money in the sale!
BIGB
Apr 13, 2007 at 9:07 pm
two words sum this franchise up.
MONEY PITS
NaNimal
May 8, 2007 at 10:38 pm
I want to get this information, but I cannot find it.. someone could help me to get this rapport. Thanks
Mike Rodriguez
Feb 2, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Go to the website and read the Executive Summary of a evaluation and grading report of the UPS Store Franchise Agreement prepared by the AAFD. It is rated among the worse for favoring the interests of the Franchisor (UPS)at the expense of those of the Franchisee (You & Me). It is estimated that at least 50-60% of all UPS Stores are losing money.
Chris
May 21, 2007 at 8:39 pm
I believe this is the link Mike is referring to at The Brown Board website: http://www.thebrownboard.com. It is under the heading: FOC - Grading & Evaluation.
MBEMAN
Jun 22, 2007 at 2:47 pm
THE UPS STORE IS THE BIGGEST SCAM OF THE21st CENTURY.UPS ACTUALLY MAKES ENRON LOOK LIKE AN HONEST COMPANY.IT HAS BEEN RUMORED THAT UPS WILL NOT BE SELLNG ANY “NEW FRANCHISE’S”..JUST CHURNING AND RESELLING THE ONES THAT ALREADY WENT UNDER.KEEP IN MIND THAT LAST YEAR THERE WERE ONLY 29 NEW STORE BUILT…DOWN OVER 90.1% FROM THE YEAR BEFORE.INTERESTINGLY UPS IS NOW RAMPING UP ITS “PARTNERSHIP” WITH STAPLES..IN ENGLISH..UPS IS BUILDING THEIR LIFEBOAT (STAPLES)BECAUSE UPS RELIZES THAT THE REMAINING UPS STORES WILL BE GOING UNDER VERY VERY VERY SOON.I CANT WAIT FOR MY DAY IN COURT AGAINST THEM(SOON MIKEY SOON STEWIE)CANT WAIT TO SEE THE LOOKS ON MIKEY’S AND STEWIE’S FACE’S WHEN THE JURY SAYS “GUILTY” AND YES THE BUSINESS MODEL CALLED THE UPS STORE IS A FAILED BUSINESS MODEL AND YES MIKEY THE WHEELS HAVE FALLEN OFF..SEE YA IN COURT..4 MORE MONTHS MIKEY…4 MORE MONTHS STEWIE
doug
Jun 22, 2007 at 6:12 pm
UPS has used lies and deceit to sell stores. The estimates are that the vast majority of these stores are not profitable. UPS will not admit the truth and continue to take money from unsuspecting, hardworking people. To add insult to injury, Entreprenuer magazine, the AARP, FranVET and the SBA are enabling UPS with recommendations and loans.
AVOID THE UPS STORE AT ALL COSTS !!!!!!!!!!!
NOWAY
Jun 22, 2007 at 8:40 pm
SCAM OF THE CENTURY, BUYER BE WARE! These stores don’t make a dime for the owners, only UPS!
thenewguy
Jul 27, 2007 at 7:13 am
hello, i’ve been doing research on the ups store franchise because im interested in buying one. im 23 years old and have been working for mbe/ups store for 7 years now. so internal wise i know everything. from what i can see the store that i work at seems to make money but when i got thier taxes and profit reports it shows money but a good amount of loss.. but the problem that i encountered is financing, the asking price is 200k and there is no way a business loan the interest is crazy…
any advice?
Anna
Jul 28, 2007 at 8:10 am
That should be your first red flag..you cannot afford it now so what makes you think you can afford to run it? I would find something else that you are really passionate about. If it is an older store and it is still loosing money, that should speak volumes to you. I would spend money on college or something else that doesn’t involve owning a franchise. There will be many in all walks of franchising that says there is nothing wrong with them but in the end, they get their money first and you get what is left over, if any. I would find something that you get all the money first, middle, and last so you are the one in control.
Lew
Aug 22, 2007 at 2:35 pm
The company owned FEDEX-KINKOS will take the franchised owned UPS stores and eat them for dinner. UPS is a piece of garbage company try calling them with a question about shipping 1-800-742-5877
not-to-be-fooled
Sep 27, 2007 at 8:52 am
Thank you for this information. I had almost signed my $7500 away and was to launch a new career with UPS Stores. This info has helped save me a massive headache by offering more background info on their setup.
sean
Sep 27, 2007 at 2:00 pm
not-to-be-fooled said I had almost signed my $7500 away and was to launch a new career with UPS Stores. This info has helped save me a massive headache…
Glad you found the discussion useful. You were smart to do your homework.
thenewguy said: im 23 years old and … i know everything.
NewGuy: Keep working and save as much money as you can. In ten years, take all your cash and divide it evenly into two piles. Burn one of the piles. You will then be a hundred thousand or so ahead of where you’d have been had they given you that loan. Buy yourself something nice.
Chance
Oct 19, 2007 at 6:23 pm
The interesting thing here is that MBE had the same idiots “misrepresenting” them as the eBay drop off stores. In other words the same people are involved, and both are under heavy litigation and compete amongst themselves. Check the UFOC’s for the same names and situations. The question is: Where will these same corporate people show up next?
The UPS Store Franchise Owner’s Lawsuit Certified as Class Action at PIGASYS
Oct 20, 2007 at 10:20 am
[…] February 2nd, 2007 Is The UPS Store a Good Franchise Opportunity? […]
Zee
Dec 4, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Chance
You seem to lack knowledge and love to throw out crap represented as facts. Our MBE stores were doing just fine until the UPS purchase. The UPS deal is the issue here. Take your crap to another thread
Chance
Dec 5, 2007 at 12:02 pm
Looks like I hit a nerve “Zee”. The facts are that many of the stores are and were NOT doing very well, and it is easily verified that some of the same HQ idiots have been involved. Check the growning list of law suits, settlements, and arbitration (of course there are twice as many gag orders we can’t check on) to see how bad it really is and has been! The brown board doesn’t paint a very good picture either, so suck it up “Zee”!
Franchise Pick’s Most Volatile Posts of 2007: A Wrap-Up
Dec 10, 2007 at 11:30 am
[…] Is The UPS Store a Good Franchise Opportunity? February 2nd, 2007 - 46 Comments […]
Beenhad
Dec 12, 2007 at 9:10 am
you want the truth?
Beenhad
Dec 12, 2007 at 9:34 am
I will list how you are about to get screwed by THE UPS STORE. I know because my bottom hurts from the punishing I have been taking. First, you drop 200-250k. Some of the equipment you buy is marked up 40-70% than if you went to walmart and bought it yourself. Next the contractor they make you pay charge 2-3 time what a normal contractor would charge you. Next your “approved Vendors” charge more to you than if found someone else yourself. Ex: box suppliers, postage suppliers, etc. Here is the best part, after you open your drop box, I mean UPS Store you will pay your life saving to UPS for the Priviledge of making them rich. HOW? First 8% royalty fees, plus $300 dollars a month for “advertising fees” which you coop gets to choose your marketing–from a ups approved list. UPS takes 60% of your margin on a box you ship, MBE takes another 8%. If they pay with a charge card, you’ll lose another 3%, and if you give them a discount to gain their business or a promotion…well lets say 10%…add that up. That’s if you convince a person to send a package, and not drop it off. Then UPS gives you a dollar -minus iship fees-other fees then minus 8% of whats left in royalties–. On top of that you WILL be answer 30 phone call a day for people wanting tracking info, lost packages etc and yelling at you because the UPS man left the package on their door step.-None of who will spend a dime in your store. Furthermore, if you land a good customer who ships a lot of boxes, your driver or a sales agent will do lead on them and take that customer right from under you…guarenteed! I know because everything I said happened, and is happening to owners across the country.
contrarian
Dec 13, 2007 at 4:51 pm
you guys are all giving me a great idea. I’m thinking I’ll locate a UPS store, rent a space near it and go into business for myself and put the UPS store out of its misery. shipping isn’t exactly a durable competitive advantage, so whoever does it better closer will always be the winner. I do feel sorry for all of you who lost money. UPS should be held accountable.
MBE/UPS stands for "Mostly Bad Experience"
Dec 14, 2007 at 4:26 pm
My wife and I purchased an MBE store in 2000. It was a new style store, one of the first in Canada. We did our due dilligance by checking with stores in our area. What we did not realize (and weren’t told) was that they built their stores for max $75,000 at least 5 years prior. This was the amount they were expensing off in their financial statements. We knew we were paying somewhat more than the original stores, what with inflation and the cost of the series 2000 store. It cost us over $250000 to get up and running with the buildout and equipment. We tried for over 4 years to make it. I never drew a penny out of the complany in over 4 years. I was fortunate my wife had an income that allowed us to live. I was relieved when she finally said she would not invest in more money. We closed the doors, and our esteemed Area Franchisee paid all of $11000 for our $250000 investment. Enron fraud — MBE and UPS are worse. MBE stands for mostly bad experience. Don’t touch it unless you’re looking for a huge tax write off.
We had a Small Business loan from the Royal Bank secured by equipment and a personal guarantee and had a 25% Government Guarantee. When we closed the store, the Royal Bank seized the store for the secuity. To reopen the store, the Area Franchisee made an offer to the Bank for $11,000 and received the store in return. We had to pay the bank the balance owing, (except the part secured with the Gov Guarantee) based on our personal guarantee. Needless to say, our losses are much larger than the small business loan, because we had mortgaged our house to the limit (it was nearly paid for before our crazy decision to go into business with MBE). We will be paying on the mortgage for the next 15 years. And we are both close to 65.
Further to my comments above, a surprising benefit we did receive was from Revenue Canada. When we closed the company books with our Chartered Accountant, he made a very conservative filing of our loss so we would be eligable for a tax write off. He told us we would be getting an audit from Revenue Canada. He said Revenue Canada are not your friends, and to only tell them what they asked with their questions. We filed our income tax, and sure enough, we received a letter from them that we were being audited. I sent them all of the information they asked for. Within a few days, Revenue Canada phoned me. The gal doing the audit asked me what was going on with MBE/UPS. She said she had several files on her desk that were very similar to ours. I told her the whole story. I twigged that this may be a way of getting some come-uppance. I knew we would never know the results of the audit. She almost sounded excited. She asked who the Area Franchisee was, and the names of the big wigs in Oakville. She asked me to send proof of our total losses (on top of what our accountant claimed). To make a long story short, regardless what we think of Rev Can, we received a great tax write off. Also, I would love to have been a fly on the wall in Oakville when Corporate Office was audited.
sean
Dec 15, 2007 at 5:17 pm
To “MBE/UPS Stands for…” and the other closed or struggling franchise owners posting, I -and I’m sure many others here - feel for you and find your stories to be, well, heartwrenching as well as infuriating. Thanks for sharing the specifics of your situation and experience - at the very least you’ll know you probably helped someone else avoid the same misfortune… and at best you’ve called attention to the kinds of issues that need to be dealt with more effectively at a higher level.
Oregon Store Owner
Dec 26, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Oh, Beenhad, word to your entire post! It’s EXACTLY what will happen. Truly, UPS stole our top customer and is working on another one, according to the disclosing customer. We’ve lost $300K to the UPS/MBE casino and I’m not sure we’ll ever recoup it.
I’ll add to your list that UPS/MBE will require that you lease space in the newest shopping center in town (AKA: high rent). The’ll give you spreadsheets showing P&L’s that show how you are going to be profitable in six months. It’s taken us 3 years to be even close to breaking even and according to them we’re doing things the right way.
Even when you’ve hit the “break even” point, we’ve found we only net about 10% after all the fees. This franchise has sucked the life out of us financially not to mention that our kids see their dad about an hour daily on Sundays when we’re closed.
Would we do it again? No. Will we make it another two years without losing our home and/or filing BK? I’m really not sure.
UPS Store Owners Friend
Jan 10, 2008 at 11:35 pm
ditto, ditto…my firend owns one. they are a hard-working family 3 years into it at break even who has emptied 401ks, motgaged homes to the hilt just to keep the thing going and they are one of the top in their area in doc services and in typically top 30% of local area. They are battling depression, emotional anxiety, fear of financial loss and trying to maintain a healthy house for their young children. Then they have to work at the counter and have someone ask for a waybill (don’t hand them out btw) or wand another dollar drop-off package. Enron is an understatement. I wish all UPS customers knew how bad UPS is screwing their franchisees and all of their families, I wish the press knew, I wish the FTC knew.
Josh Paschall
Feb 28, 2008 at 8:44 pm
RUN AWAY RUN AS FAST AND FAR AS YOU CAN. I just endured 6 months of nothing but lies. From day one I explained the location I wanted the store to be. I was told it was on there radar and that would not bea problem. From then on everything went wrong. I would go 2-3 weeks without phone call backs. I would excuses that my area rep was in oral surgery. I 4 months into it I got an e-mail saying that my location would not work and I could choose from other locations. Guess what the other locations already had a post net in the area and they had a non compete clase that no one could lease that had the same type of business. UPS Proposed to put my store 200 yards away. Couldnt do even if I wanted to. Good job of research by there real estate team. I again argued about location they said they would look into again. Finally I said YES or NO. Those are the only answers I want, if no I want all my money bcak. Just tonight 6 months into it, I got a phone call from the President of Operations Pete Lindsey to go over my frustrations. He said he was sorry but the good news was is that I could have my store in Pleasant HIll because they believed in me and my past successes. Although still skeptical I said I would wipe the slate clean as long as he promises that from here on out communication would be top of the line. he agreed and we were on a our way. 45 MINUTES LATER HE CALLS BACK AND SAYS HE SUBMITTED THE PAPERWORK AND I WAS NO LONGER APPROVED AND THAT THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYTHING LIKE THIS HAS HAPPENED IN HIS 17 YEARS AND HE WAS SO SORRY BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. UPS is a joke. There people are a joke. I AM GETTING MY $7500 BACK. I explained to him I wanted it overnighted to me, but that he better use FEDEX to make sure it gets to me on time.
SD
Feb 29, 2008 at 9:44 am
TUPSS would let you put a store in the middle of the ocean as long as your check clears. Their must have been some underlying reason why you couldn’t have your location. I would try to find the answer to that question. If they refund your full $7500 they are trying to hide something.
Chance
Feb 29, 2008 at 11:37 am
Josh your story is heart felt, and let us know if you ever see the check! In the meantime, perhaps starting a website about their poor franchising ethics would help others (check out AmITheOnlyOne.org for an example). These franchisors are only interested in the upfront money (franchisee fees and profits on assests they will sell you), and not on whether you are successful in business, or if the market is flooded.
What is sad, is that the UFOC doesn’t show a true picture of the business, and they can get away with it, like so many other franchisors!
SD, my guess is that they have deals worked out with some landlords, and/or perhaps they get kick backs - imagine that!
Jim B
Feb 29, 2008 at 12:48 pm
God was looking out for you my friend. Take it from someone who was approved some years back: You dodged a bullet.
Best wishes for the future. I hope the scam artists give you your money back soon, but don’t hold your breath; they’re thieves, and damn good one’s at that!
Josh
Feb 29, 2008 at 3:45 pm
SD. I am not sure what the reason is. I was not financing anything this was a cash deal. They said because the population was under 10,000. At the begining it was OK Because it was so close to a Metro Area. Who knows. I was told today that I would have my check for the full $7500 Monday Morning. I will let you know.
Josh P
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:11 pm
I Got My Money back. It took longer than they said of course but it happened. Still My Opinion of UPS will never be the same.
pudge
Mar 27, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Where were all of you store owners 2 years ago when our law suit against UPS began to take root?! Out of 5,000 or so stores in the U.S. only 200 of us could be counted on to realy chalenge UPS…not in some commette group, not on some “talk brown soup” web site. Only in the court of law can UPS be FORCED into opening up what is the real story of these store failures. While this suit is still in the works as of this second and nothing major will be happening till summer, SOME of us have something that others don’t …HOPE. We really could have used you guys two years ago…
Franck
Apr 2, 2008 at 8:44 am
Hi from France,
Do you know where i can find articles or informations about any drop off store finally lose in justice ? or have been sentenced ?
It’s too have more arguments in court with my french attorney. Thanks a lot for your help !
John
Apr 24, 2008 at 7:25 pm
I’ve had several MBEs and coverted all of them into The UPS Store locations. I’ve been doing this for 14+ years and I’m not doing it for nothing. Buying and operating a TUPSS franchise is like owning and operating any other small business, whether it’s a franchise or independent. While I don’t know the specifics of the business failures of many of the posters on this topic, I am aware that some of them are Extremely angry about their situation, and that they have spent a tremendous amount of time tearing down the value of this franchise over the past 4-5 years. The hard facts are that MANY TUPSS owners make a very good living with their stores. Mike Rodriguez’s comment that 50-60% of the stores are losing money is so absurd that it’s laughable. The successful store owners spend their time working on their businesses, not posting all over the internet how successful they are. There are unhappy franchisees in every franchise system. I’ve talked with many of them over the years. Franchising is about using the franchisor’s business management system or operational model. It has been my experience that most of the franchisees I’ve talked with who are unhappy with TUPSS, do not even come close to following the guidelines and business management system provided by the Mail Boxes Etc, which is the franchise company for The UPS Store. If you think you are interested in owning a TUPSS franchise, you should talk with as many TUPSS owners as you can. AND, you should talk with owners of other franchise businesses as well. Go visit your local SCORE (Senior Core of Retired Executives) office and get advice from other small business owners. Don’t base your decision on the opinions of ONLY the franchisees who are angry, and please, if you do listen to their advice, arm yourself to ask the right questions to find out the root cause of their failure. If some one choses NOT to follow the franchise business system they purchase, they ought not to blame the franchise company for their failure. Franchises that are operated by the book by people with the requisite business and personal skills are generally successful. There are always situations that can’t be foreseen, such as an anchor tennant moving out of a stip mall, which can have a very negative impact on an individual business, but that’s not the franchise company’s fault. Owning a small business is both rewarding and difficult. If you’ve done the proper due dilligence to invest the money, you’ll likely make the right decision and be successful with the business. Don’t let the naysayers keep you from investigating what may be an excellent opportunity for you.
BS
Apr 24, 2008 at 9:15 pm
It’s kinda hard to survive owning one of these stores when your parent company UPS is your direct compeition!!! RUN LIKE HELL from this franchise!!! 60% of the stores don’t make a dime!
NJ Owner
Apr 24, 2008 at 9:30 pm
This guy John is either is complete idiot or he is working for MBE/UPS trying to do damage control. He has his head completly up his ass. This franchise system is in shambles due to neverending UPS/MBE greed. Don’t Do it unless you have a desperate need to destroy the next 10 years and all life savings!
UPS Store Franchise Owner Says You’d Succeed If You’d Stop Whining
Apr 24, 2008 at 9:30 pm
[…] (FranchisePick.Com) A while back I asked: Is The UPS Store a Good Franchise Opportunity? […]
sean
Apr 24, 2008 at 9:35 pm
I’ve given John’s thought-provoking comment the honor of it’s own post.
Click here to go see it and comment, if it’s not too much effort:
UPS Store Franchise Owner Says You’d Succeed If You’d Stop Whining
Susan
Apr 24, 2008 at 10:02 pm
“John” is a perpetual committee rep out of TN.
He has owned several of these stores, but what he doesn’t tell you is that he has been on FAC and insists on touting the company line. He refuses to listen to realistic people, ONLY people who are the “Right” business people.
Go to hell John
Susan
Apr 24, 2008 at 10:06 pm
If any of you negative people would like to contact
JOHN FULLER:
3679
3746
Fedup
Apr 25, 2008 at 5:23 am
John might or might not be one of the handful of successful owners. Just as likely, he’s a UPS/MBE “mole,” who pop up on boards like this one, Blue Mau Mau, and others, to try and spin the facts and make it appear that the franchisees are, variously, stupid, lazy, incompentent, etc. If you want the honest truth, get off YOUR lazy butt, and this board, and talk face-to-face with at least a dozen owners, and be sure they are not “stalking horses” who have been hand-picked by a UPS/MBE management type and who are sure to give you their spun version of things.
Jim Brown
Apr 25, 2008 at 6:47 am
John Fuller doesn’t even follow his own PACE recommended guidelines for his stores. This franchise is a sham, and he knows it. Don’t let his foolishness ruin your life.
John, why don’t you ask Stuart Mathis what percentage of stores are making money according to the Boston Consulting Group report that MBE/UPS refuses to share whith it’s franchisees?
And before you pick on Mike Rodriguez, it might surprise you to know that Mike was parroting Barry Barnes, region five Franchise Advisory Counsil member, and owner of four stores.
Completely irresponsibble John. You want to portray this franchise as being a victim of disgruntled franchisees, rather than explaining that these franchisees are disgruntled because they are victims of a well thought out scheme to make UPS a great deal of money on the backs of hard working, albeit failing, Ma and Pa store owners.
Shame on you. Just keep your mouth shut and your fingers off the keyboard. I’m sure there’s someone out there who believes that the $1 million dollar store is attainable by making mousepads, but there aren’t any takers here.
sean
Apr 25, 2008 at 11:10 am
I PROPOSE A DUEL
Are you each willing to advance the debate from the abstract to specifics? I will set up posts for the dueling submissions.
It will be TCS (Team Corporate Suckups) vs. TLS (Team Lazy Slackers). At the end, we’ll open it up for a public vote. No legal fees, no drawn out court cases, just our version of Franchise Idol. The winners get to change their team name to whatever they want, and the losers will keep their moniker on this site from that day forward.
John and the TCS: Can you get me a list of ten successful stores that you think are run in accordance with the company’s guidelines and that show that the The UPS Store model, if diligently run on typical-to-good circumstances - will be successful? Store location, when founded, owner’s names, estimated revenue, type of area and a picture for each would be great, but not an absolute requirement. No stores with extraordinarily high traffic or uncommon locations.
BS and the TLS: Can you get me a list of ten unsuccessful stores (open or closed) that you think are or were run in accordance with the company’s guidelines and that show that the The UPS Store model, even if diligently run on typical-to-good circumstances - will be not successful? Store location, when founded, owner’s names, estimated revenue (and basis for that estimate), type of area and a picture for each would be great, but not an absolute requirement. No stores with extraordinarily poor traffic or uncommon situations, please.
A priority will be placed on promoting - not maligning - any open stores and their owners.
What do you think?
Is your side ready to back up its claims with examples?
You’ll be able to post your info on the stores directly, and I’ll give you a place to email the pictures up a place to upload.
Feel free to email me at info[at]ideafarm.net
sean
Apr 25, 2008 at 1:10 pm
The gauntlet is thrown down. Post your store examples here:
The UPS Store Franchise: Follow the System and Succeed!
The UPS Store Franchise: This Dog Won’t Hunt!
Josh
Apr 25, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Here is the thing that everyone really needs to understand. The reason these stores are not successful is simple. The people making the decesions are idots. I was lucky that I ended up not owning a store. I posted earlier that I actually got my money back. From Day one I was Lied to. I was told I could have a store in the city and location I wanted. 6 months later I was told I could not. The first person I spoke to during the interview process had to cancel his first trip to interview. He was nice enough and had no problem accepting a $7500.00 check. The real estate “Guru” cancelled 2 meetings then he was going to have 2 other people with him and guess what I was told they had to go to St. Louis for an emergancy at one of the stores. I drove this guy around at 8:00. He stunk like alchol so bad I had to put my window down while it was raining. After the meeting he said looked like a geat place for the store. this was about 3 months into the process. Let me remind everyone as I said in my earlier post this was a cash transaction. Nothing against anyone who is financing but just a point that there were no contingencies. All of the sudden no communication at all. I left message after message after message. To make it short I got a call from the operations manager whom I mentioned(just scroll up) called me and said they were so sorry Yada yada yada!!! My location was approved Blah Blah Blah!!!. 30-45 min later he called me back and said he was sorry but it was not approved but I could have a different location. Why do these stores not work because the people in charge of setting thenm up are idots. Just to let everone know. I just bought a Goin’ Postal Franchise. It has been 2 months and I am loving it. These people are great. My store will open June 1st and it will offer more than a UPS store at half the cost.
Fedup
Apr 25, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Sean, many of the stores who know the most about what’s going on in this mess are involved in lawsuits and cannot play your silly game. If you’re genuinely interested in finding out what’s what, get up from the keyboard, off your butt, and talk to at least a dozen–better, two dozen–store owners who have been in the system for at least 6 or 8 years, and not the mouthpieces that UPS/MBE “handlers” point you toward.
sean
Apr 26, 2008 at 7:08 am
Fedup:
The silly game is giving you an opportunity to make your case to the tens of thousands of people who visit this site every month, searching for information. This includes writers from the Wall Street Journal, Business Week and other major publications who are looking for real information. It also includes many, many people who are considering UPS franchises right now. Take a look through the comments and you’ll see several thanking this site for information that saved them from making a huge mistake, like buying a UPS franchise.
If joining a lawsuit means that you give up your freedom to discuss your situation or warn others, I’m sure UPS is thrilled with your lawsuits. Think about it, Fedup. This is a public company with investors, carriers, and small business customers whose perceptions of the company are critical. And now, instead of being able to protest, send them letters, pitch your individual stories, urge a boycott you agree to go silent and pay attornies to slug it out on some obscure battleground.
Does anyone read those boring lawsuit press releases? Does anyone seriously thinks a group of shop owners can outgun a corporate giant with unlimited resources in the courtroom?
The “silly game” is an invitation to use the Court of Public Opinion, which is where UPS Store owners have a fighting chance, and a chance to outgun the corporate “handlers” with specifics.
cg
Apr 26, 2008 at 7:43 am
sean
It is in court that the decision will be made. You are asking us to post on a public forum what UPS has to use their lawyers to get. I haven’t spent 5 years of my life so that it can be thrown away on a public forum
sean
Apr 26, 2008 at 11:03 am
cg said: sean It is in court that the decision will be made. You are asking us to post on a public forum what UPS has to use their lawyers to get. I haven’t spent 5 years of my life so that it can be thrown away on a public forum
I hadn’t realized that being in a a lawsuit means that you cannot post rational, specific arguments, but it does allow emotional, anonymous attacks and insults?
Or that it prohibits linking to publicly available examples, like the story I posted about the franchisee who ended up in a trailer park?
The average consumer and UPS corporate knows nothing about your lawsuit or your struggles. No one I speak to outside the franchise world knows about most of the litigation with UPS, Quiznos, Coffee Beanery or any of the stuff we in the industry are up on. When they come on a discussion like the one that prompted my “silly game,” they don’t know whether John or you are the credible ones. As the franchisees are attacking a respected company without providing specifics, John’s seem more soundly reasoned to the outside observer.
Ranting and raving in generalities about the FR being crooks, etc. makes it easy for a FR to dismiss you at Discovery Day. It validates their characterization of unhappy franchisees as ranting, raving negative crybabiess blaming others for their own failures.
Specific examples of stores that followed the system and failed – perhaps even in the market a franchisee is considering – is a lot harder to dismiss.
The “challenge” was meant to provide you with an opportunity for you all to refute John’s argument with compelling examples rather than personal attacks.
CG, I recall we conversed in a rational manner before when I was immediately attacked on your forum. Unfortunately, arrogant idiots like FedUp would rather represent your group as favoring personal attacks. At least, that’s my impression by the spate of insulting emails he barraged me me with today. Sometimes your worst enemies are right there alongside you.
sean
Apr 27, 2008 at 8:53 am
In the past year or so I have published 13 posts on the struggles of The UPS Store franchise owners on this blog alone, and more on my other blogs. Despite this, I get barraged by insulting emails from Fedup, who is supposedly a franchise owner.
Is The UPS Store a Good Franchise Opportunity?
Owners call the UPS Store Franchise “Indentured Servitude,” and “A Nightmare”
Is UPS Cheating its Customers, Franchisees… and YOU?
The UPS Store PLUS The eBay Drop-Off Store Equals…?
UPS Store Franchise Dream Ends in a Florida Trailer Park
Franchise Owners Say Opening a UPS Store Franchise is a “Bad Financial Decision”
The UPS Store Franchise Owner’s Lawsuit Certified as Class Action
Franchise Pick’s Most Volatile Posts of 2007: A Wrap-Up
UPS Store Franchise Owner Says You’d Succeed If You’d Stop Whining
The UPS Store Franchise: Follow the System and Succeed!
The UPS Store Franchise: This Dog Won’t Hunt!
The UPS Store: Fan Mail From Some Flounder(ers)
Is Fedups really one of your fellow franchise owners or a plant from your opponents trying to undermine the image of UPS store owners? If so, it’s a pretty effective technique.
Fedup
Apr 28, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Sean,
I’ve emailed my credentials, etc, privately. I could not care less what you think of me personally. What annoys me about you, aside from your remark that a group of store owners like us would be “outgunned by a giant like UPS,” or words to that effect, is your lack of professionalism (incidentially, my screen name here is “Fedup,” not “Fedups.”), and your continuing attempt to elicit information from that has bearing on litigation in progress. To that point, I quote from one of the lawyer Michael Webster’s posts, which was addressed directly to you.
“I used to be in many of the UPS/MBE boards. But I had to disengage because I was basically doing the same thing that Sean was doing: asking people to make statements that might have hurt their litigation chances. I miss being on those boards because I learned a lot - but my presence was not helping.”
You want information? You want statements? Get off your duff and go get it.
Chance
Apr 28, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Fed Up, I am a former franchisee of a now defunct ebay drop off store franchise, which is only defunct due to the diligence of people out here who have had the balls to speak out about what is really going on in these franchises. Sean is well aware of the fact that a handful of franchisees can and will have an impact for the greater good of the struggling franchisees and potential victims. So step off the dance floor or learn to dance - the truth will prevail!
sean
Apr 28, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Chance:
Thanks a lot.
Though this is not a group that can be reasoned with. They kind of come in like a rabid pack, all frothed up from ranting on BlueMauMau or their own boards. There is no discussion that does not immediately become about them and their lawsuit.
They would do well to go to amitheonlyone.org and see how a flawed business model can be convincingly exposed with facts and logic. Ask them for an example and you’ll get assailed, attacked presented with their 5 year old Ad test results.
With the arrogance and rudeness that’s typical of at least a number of this group, it’s no mystery why their customers would want to go direct with UPS… or Staples… Or OfficeMax… Yikes.
Chance
Apr 28, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Sean,
Some people that are desperate strike out at others. It is time they get their ego’s in check.
Are they aware that some of the corp. snakes of the drop off stores were with MBE (the UPS precursor)? These guys go from franchise to franchise creating havoc in their wake, they need to be stopped, and it takes all of our efforts. Those who want to hide behind the shirts of corporate corruption, or the arm of the law are out for only themselves. Unity and facts are what win lawsuits and allow franchisees a chance. Perhaps a website of facts is what they really need. I am sure that the folks at AmITheOnlyOne.org will help them out.
OutToLunch
Apr 28, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Gee.
I am dumbstruck Sean.
Not ALL people have done this, in fact, I see very little that have.
So you have lumped us all in together. I spent some time last night laying out what I thought was pretty good information.
You never even commented on it.
You did comment on a couple of other “Who cares” posts though
sean
Apr 29, 2008 at 3:53 am
OuttoLunch said: Gee.
I am dumbstruck Sean.
Not ALL people have done this, in fact, I see very little that have.
So you have lumped us all in together. I spent some time last night laying out what I thought was pretty good information.
You never even commented on it.
You did comment on a couple of other “Who cares” posts though
You’re, of course, right and I apologize. I read every comment, but they come in waves. I’ll go back and respond to yours.
From the first time I started looking into some of the disturbing stories about what UPS has done since their acquisition of MBE, it has taken a conscious effort to remember that having a few bitter, arrogant loudmouths is not a reflection on the many UPS store franchise owners who deserve better treatment than they’ve received. Unfortunately, it’s probably the same 2-3 people who tend to turn every conversation into an argument, and always with their particular situation in the spotlight.
The attacks I was responding to were on a different post, so, again, sorry.
The topic here is whether or not The UPS Store is a good franchise opportunity or not, and why. It’s not about the particulars of your lawsuit and it’s not a continuation of your insider conversations on your brown board, white board or whatever board you rant on. I proposed a tongue-in-cheek “duel” in an attempt to have some evidence or examples posted illustrating how the business model isn’t profitable even in normal to good circumstances.
To be blunt, I was giving TUPSS owners (or others) an opportunity to raise the level of the argument above “The reason these stores are not successful is simple. The people making the decesions are idots.”
I perhaps got spoiled in the conversations on the iSold It and Snappy Auctions post. The franchise owners, like Chance, understood, and cared, that prospective franchise owners were here looking for real information as an alternative to the FR’s impressive propoganda machine. Some stuck their own necks out to prevent others from making the mistakes they did.
As much as I sympathize with The UPS owners’ situations, I can’t help but think they’ve just traded one cage for another, one master for another. They have gagged themselves, and signed on for years of negativity and rancor. I hope any settlement is worth it for them, and not just their law firms.
But that’s a topic for another post.
Fedup
Apr 29, 2008 at 10:12 am
Another very worthwhile insight from Michael Webster: “Traffic created by your posts allows B5Media to sell advertising here - from which they in turn pay Sean to write.”
“Ask the Man” has again suggested that if there are really success stories to be heard, that “John” or others provide the details. They haven’t, because they can’t.
On the other hand, it’s been made clear that the lawyers want those in the lawsuits to button up ’till the shooting is over and the smoke clears…”don’t make yourself a target.” What Sean keeps agitating for is exactly that. Again, lawyer Michael Webster has agreed.
If a prosepective franchisee wants the whole story, not just what the franchisor’s “propoganda machine” cranks out, it’s as close as google.
Bottom line, apparently, Sean keeps stirring the pot ’cause it puts money in his pocket for blogging.
sean
Apr 29, 2008 at 10:59 am
Cha-ching! Cha-ching! Cha-ching!
Chance
Apr 29, 2008 at 6:17 pm
To all the UPS owners other than the Corp. puppets like Fedup:
Please realize that this idiot, Fedup, is only trying to deface Sean and anyone else that could help the franchisees who are speaking out. As for gags, a gag does not mean you can’t speak the TRUTH about problems the store owners are having, in fact, speaking out will most likely get you more allies in your fight against the Corp. powers above. Remember that some peoples ego’s can’t admit they are losing the battle with these stores, and so they may tout unbelievable facts. Form a group by finding the common issues you are all dealing with(Sean will help), and if you are being threatened (which often happens with rotten franchisors) - seak legal advice! A group action will get much more attention! Good luck!
Fedup
Apr 29, 2008 at 11:49 pm
“Chance,’ as you noted previously, you are NOT a franchisee who’s involved with UPS. So you really don’t know what you’re talking about. And far from being a “corporate puppet,” I’m simply warning those in litigation to remember what their very competent legals have said, which is exactly what Michael Webster said earlier on this thread: “I used to be in many of the UPS/MBE boards. But I had to disengage because I was basically doing the same thing that Sean was doing: asking people to make statements that might have hurt their litigation chances.”
“Chance,” the facts are all to be found via google. The courts will help sort out the rest.
sean
Apr 30, 2008 at 8:44 am
Fedups keeps referring to Michael Webster’s decision to stop participating in a UPS franchise owners forum which - unlike FranchisePick.com - is largely populated with UPS litigants discussing matters directly related to their litigation.
This is an open forum with a primary focus on helping people who are considering a franchise investment see past the hype and be able to make a truly informed decision. This is largely accomplished by the contributions of franchisees and ex-franchisees willing to share their insights and the hard lessons they’ve learned.
The secondary focus of FranchisePick.com is to help franchisees and franchisors celebrate best practices, and expose and discuss worst practices, for the betterment of all involved.
Fedups, I don’t know how many more ways I can say this: This conversation is not about you or your lawsuit. Comprende? It’s not about you or your lawsuit. It is you, not Chance, who does not know what you are talking about.
If you cannot grasp that concept, and if you have nothing of substance (your lawyers will allow you) to add, please go pack some boxes, lick some stamps, arrange your return labels, alienate some customers, or start a blog dedicated to telling people, ad nauseum, how you can’t tell them anything.
Don’t go away mad, but go away knowing that your intellectual superiority and your righteous indignation at the misdeeds of your evil overlord are well established.
Go away knowing the citizenry is safe,
And your work here is done.
Dharma
Apr 30, 2008 at 9:06 am
If you want to know about franchises, go to Blue Mau Mau and read there. Sean is an instigator who wants those reading to see his superiority over those who post. You asked if this was a good franchise and we answered…NO IT ISN’T. So leave it at that and if readers decide they want one, then so be it. But if the readers wait for a few months or so, they will know why we advised not to buy one. No one in any kind of litigation should be here on this board talking to anyone about it, even if you haven’t disclosed anything. So if you are, stop now. Walk away, never to come back until everything is finished. There is enough info out there if people are willing to dig for it.
Fedup
Apr 30, 2008 at 10:39 am
Sean, I’ll quote the esteemed Michael Webster once again, ’cause you simply don’t seem to be able to grasp simple English:
“I used to be in many of the UPS/MBE boards. But I had to disengage because I was basically doing the same thing that Sean was doing: asking people to make statements that might have hurt their litigation chances.
Add the fact that your blog is more public than the UPS/MBE boards–and might even have a higher readership–and it requires only a modicum of common sense to realize that anything posted here IS or about the litigants and their lawsuits, so it’s just as bad an idea to run one’s mouth here.
Finally, try and get at least one thing right. My screen name is “Fedup,” not “Fedups.” Details do matter.
Dharma, you’re right again, as you often are on that “other” board. I’m walking away and not coming back, and I can just hear Sean’s sigh of relief that I departed before revealing that his highest achievement in franchising was as marketing director of “Aunt Annie’s Pretzels.” Oops, it just slipped out. ;^)
sean
Apr 30, 2008 at 11:22 am
By God, I miss Fedups already…. sigh…
cg
Apr 30, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Sean
Your last statement speaks to your lack of professionalism more than Fedup.
Chance
Apr 30, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Actually Fedup(s), I DO know what I am talking about. It is NOT necessary to be a UPS franchisee, but more importantly that I have had franchisee experience very similar in nature (by some of the same nasty guys who over sold MBE).
The whole point of this blog is to save one more potential franchisee from being a bankrupt victum. However, you would have to care about someone other than yourself! As for Sean, he has been very diligent, as have others out here, in helping those potentials steer clear. He and others have given alot of constructive help to those dealing with major issues or closing. That is above and beyond the call of duty (getting the word out), so a thankyou would be more in order here!
And Dharma, the whole problem here is that people DON’T dig for info, including yourself, or you wouldn’t have bought into this franchise in the first place - the data has been out there for quite a few years now.
Stating what has happened (truthfully) and not just bitching, can only strengthen your position - not hamper it, and I am sure Mr. Webster will agree with that! You have to get the issues out there, and blogging is just one of the ways to do that.
Lawsuits (or arbitration) on the other hand, can take MANY years and dollars to complete (and most likely never will). So, perhaps you should start working on rallying the troops instead of tossing arrows at every and anyone who attempts to help. I believe that if you direct your anger toward the abuser (UPS in this case), you just might help bring them down, or reach some kind of equitable settlement for everyone. If only two people at AITOO can take down most of the ebay drop off store industry, just think what you and a handful of franchisees can do together!
PS. And remember that Sean is entitled to be frustrated and FED UP sometimes too!
sean
Apr 30, 2008 at 6:16 pm
cg said: Sean Your last statement speaks to your lack of professionalism more than Fedup.
You’re right. It was juvenile. It occurred to me that it hurts the overall record for future readers. I’ve only ever banned one person in a year and a half, but I should do that the moment someone gets abusive, sends me a personal, insulting email, or ever disparages the pretzel, the noblest of all snacks.
Michael Webster
Apr 30, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Sean is not your enemy.
He asked for some posts about how the system could work better.
Correctly, many of you said that it was not in your legal interest to explore this in a public forum.
At the end of the day, win or lose the lawsuit, you still will have a business of some sort or another to run.
Sean was asking you to reflect upon how that business ought to work.
Now I do understand how such reflections may be “banned” by your legal advisors, and for good reasons.
But at the end of the day, you collectively are more than merely plaintiffs in a lawsuit - you are business people.
When you win all that money - what services would you buy for your business? How would you make it better? (And please, don’t say that you would just sell it to the next sucker.)
I don’t want you to answer these questions in public - it would be a mistake.
But, equally, Sean raising these questions for you to think about is important.
What are you doing with the rest of your life when this litigation is over, one way or the other.
Dorian
May 20, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Who’s the idiot that bought a Goin Postal franchise? What a fool! That name and concept will be gone soon.
The fact is if you are smart, market and treat your customers right, then you will do well. Problem is many franchisees are weak and lazy.
Chance
May 20, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Dorian,
Concerning Goin Postal, they are no more a fool than you are, and they have many of the same issues that UPS does. They are only seaching for answers like many others out here.
As for marketing and treating your customers right, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to know you are not guaranteed success. In fact having a bad franchisor only compounds problems no matter how hard the franchisees work, and they are amongst the hardest working people in business.
From your comments it sounds like you are NOT a franchisee, have never been one, or you’re an arrogant franchisor trying hard to cast a bad light on this blog (surprize surprize). Call me an optimist, but it seems that working together out here would accomplish alot more!
Josh
May 20, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I am the one who bought th GPS Store. Guess what they are light years ahead of UPS. I am sure there are people who have had success with UPS. I did not go forward with UPS for one main reason. They could not communicate and when they did it was a different story from whom ever I spoke with. AS noted earlier I did get my money back and it was a blessing. My GPS Store opens up June 15th. I am sure there will be problems, questions, concerns, disagreements and things I will not like, but Communication is the key in any business. GPS had done a great job. It may not be the store for everyone just like UPS but so far so good
Chance
May 21, 2008 at 8:41 am
Good luck to you Josh! I am sure you will do well.
Nobody
Jun 10, 2008 at 8:47 am
Worse business, don’t invest any money into this businee.
Nobody
Jun 10, 2008 at 8:48 am
This Business is nothing but eat your money and time. no profit at all.
Chris
Jun 11, 2008 at 1:40 pm
i am 42 and in Debt up to my A$$!
they decided to put 4 stores in my area and one store had to close its doors, O’yeah my store!
now i am paying the bank and the lease off plus trying to run another store, so i would think that will go under sometime cause it is supporting two NOTES. WELL THANKS ALOT
upsdreamin
Jul 14, 2008 at 1:48 pm
The Goin Postal just closed down here in Tucson AZ the owner LOST his ASS. After less than a year and right down the street from a UPS Store that closed down 6 months before. If you going to buy one of these businesses buy an existing one wtih cash flow.
Out
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