Is College a Scam?
(FranchisePick.Com) My post Wise Up! Skip College. Buy a Franchise! provoked some strong reactions, most notably from those whose meager livelihood depends on the perpetuation of the myth of the college diploma as a good investment. Few scam victims are willing to come forward, so the myth goes on.
Benjamin Welch wrote an earnest, though misguided, response to my post called College Degrees: What’s Their Real Value? Since Ben “has been a college instructor in writing and composition for nearly six years,” he knows the myth better than anyone. Ben, I was a “college instructor in writing and composition” too. I was teaching 130 students during the week and playing drinking songs at an Irish pub Fridays & Saturday nights. Guess which job payed more?
Ben claims “any pundits who claim, sarcastically or not, that a college just isn’t worth the trouble or the money, are in error.” He uses two common fallacies to support this contention: that “some people have succeeded without degrees, but they belong to a small minority,” and that those with college degrees earn more than a million extra bucks because of their magic diplomas.
A small minority of successful people lack college degrees? Who’s been “smoking doobies down by the river” Ben? In 2003, the percentage of Forbes 400 members without college degrees was 33%. That’s a small minority? The average net worth of a Forbes 400 member without college degree: $2.27 billion. With a degree: $2.13 billion.
But the real sleight-of-hand parlor trick is the statement that those with college diplomas earn “$30,000 more annually than someone with only a high school diploma. Over the course of a working lifetime, that’s more than million dollars.”
Hmmm… If the average income of Beluga caviar consumers is $500K annually, does that mean that if I eat whale eggs weekly I’ll earn $500K? Where’s proof of cause and effect? College-goers are more likely to be white, privileged, better-educated and probably (as a group) smarter than those who don’t go to college. They’d be no less white, privileged, better-educated and probably (as a group) smarter without their degrees. Can diploma apologists contend, with a straight face, that people like Warren Buffett, Ralph Lauren, Steven Spielberg, Donald Trump, Oprah, and Martha Stewart would not have achieved their success without their degrees?
To correct Mr. Welch’s well-crafted, but misguided, conclusion: ”In the final analysis, the grounds for [defending] the worth of a college degree are based either on poor math or logical fallacies — two errors, ironically, that a college education is supposed to correct.”
WHAT DO YOU THINK? IS A COLLEGE DEGREE NECESSARY FOR SUCCESS? ISN’T A FRANCHISE A BETTER INVESTMENT?
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20 opinions for Is College a Scam?
Darlene
Jul 7, 2007 at 4:18 pm
I’ll jump in here and begin some dialog, because I believe your various post on this topic are very interesting. I especially liked the first one I saw, Wise Up…
In any case, as a college graduate and business person, I would have to disagree as far as the value of an education for some. I don’t believe everyone can buy a franchise and be success. I believe that path is good for some, and probably for more people than we currently see take that path. But I cannot and probably never will agree that college is a scam. Some people need to go to college in order to figure out what they want to do beyond 18 years of age and high school.
Is college overpriced for what you net at the end of 4 years, 6 years, 10 years? YES! I believe that college is overpriced and what you pay for vs. what you get don’t balance.
My bottom line is I believe that some people need to go to college. Not everyone, but there are some that need to do it.
Also, our society in America demands that piece of paper. Most people without degrees do not make the salaries of Oprah and the like in your list. And even more ridiculous in our society today is there are many people with diplomas who are making VERY low salaries. A degree is not necessary to be successful in our society, but it is a TICKET that opens doors for people that otherwise would not have doors open to them. Is it a guarantee for your success, NO, it is not. But I am glad that I have mine.
sean
Jul 8, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Darlene:
Good comments, Thanks. I agree with the parts where you agree with me :)
I have a pretty interesting marketing company (see a little about it at ideafarm.net) with pretty interesting clients. Lots of entrepreneurial, fun stuff. Most people who visit our office are very engaged by the marketing projects they see in progress, the case studies, creative approaches, results, etc.
The only exceptions to this have been college marketing professors who came to meet about students they had interning with us. The Profs. couldn’t care less. They don’t ask questions, don’t engage in conversation about marketing projects… in fact they seem resentful of actual marketing practices in the real world that could somehow threaten whatever fictional schtick they blab to their hungover, bored students.
When I DO hire someone with a marketing degree, they have zero clue as to how to market something. It’s less than square one… they have to be deprogrammed, then taught from scratch.
Some of these Profs should be sued for malpractice… or impersonating a marketer.
Darlene
Jul 8, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Sean, I don’t doubt that many college students come out of school with no idea how to effectively work in the real world once they complete school. But, I don’t think we shoud “throw out the baby with the bath water.”
Our system of educational preparation needs some changes to ensure adults are prepared.
One school that has a different perspective on how to rightly prepare students for the work world is the University of Phoenix. You may want to look at their students when looking for students to bring into your organization.
Scam Alerts » Blog Archive » Scam Related News (07/08/2007)
Jul 13, 2007 at 8:32 am
[…] Is College a Scam? By sean Few scam victims are willing to come forward, so the myth goes on. Benjamin Welch wrote an earnest, though misguided, response to my post called College Degrees: What’s Their Real Value? Since Ben “has been a college instructor in … Franchise Pick - http://www.franchisepick.com […]
cool j
Mar 29, 2008 at 4:58 pm
funny how people that are pro college always respond to these articles saying how good college is. point being, your probably not going to make it in the real world if you can’t see through the college system scam.
Mike
Apr 30, 2008 at 8:21 am
This is ridiculous. Is college over-priced? Sure is.
Is college a scam to everybody that enters? NO.
Many people use college as a way to figure out what to do with their lives. Many others enter college knowing exactly what they wish to do with their lives and simply do not care if a large salary is to follow their dreams.
It is great that some people can do very well for themselves without college. But it is clearly stated in this article that 33% of the Forbes 400. THAT MEANS THAT 66% OF THE FORBES 400 DOES HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE. I do not know about anybody else but I like to play poker, play a little black jack and the like. I would bet on 66% over 33% any day…In fact, I currently am putting money on that. In college.
This author is giving me the idea that he does not believe that college is necessary for anyone that wants to be successful. This is ridiculous.
sean
Apr 30, 2008 at 9:04 am
Mike says: Many people use college as a way to figure out what to do with their lives.
Many people use college as a way to get drunk, smoke weed, play video games and watch “Girls Gone Wild” for 5 years while mommy & daddy and the Federal Government (read: taxpayers) pick up the tab. Or else they end up joining the work force with no practical skills, maxxed out credit cards and $40K in student loans as they struggle to find a $30K a year job.
The author has experience from four perspectives: as an undergrad and graduate student, as a university faculty member, as an employer of new graduates, and as a parent of college students.
I’m not saying it’s not worthwhile for some, but it’s unequivocably a scam for many if not most. Going into business provides a much more effective motivation and evaluation process: You learn what you gotta learn and do what you gotta do when you gotta do it. And when your customers give you an “F,” you know it!
But don’t sweat it, Mike. Your parents don’t read this blog. Your secret’s safe :)
Darlene
Apr 30, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Sean and Mike, both of your comments drew me back into the discussion tonight. I agree with both of these statements:
Mike’s comment: Many people use college as a way to figure out what to do with their lives. - ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I actually believe this is not a bad reason to go to college. We certainly don’t help high school students prepare for the work world. Basically, we have children, send them to school, to go to college, to go to work. What other vehicle can we use to better prepare students to enter adulthood with all its challenges including the daily grind of work?
Sean’s comment: Many people use college as a way to get drunk, smoke weed, play video games and watch “Girls Gone Wild” for 5 years while mommy & daddy and the Federal Government (read: taxpayers) pick up the tab. -
This statement is sad but true. But the reason this is the focus for many has more to do with immaturity, lack of accountability, ethics, and the list goes on. It doesn’t minimize the value of the college experience, the learning, the time invested by those to actually prepare for their vocation, or a reasonable facsimile of their vocation.
Bottom line for me - College is not a scam. It is a bridge, a holding pattern for some, a waste of time for others, a money maker, a waste of money, and the list goes on.
Oh, I just had a thought, maybe the scam is the students who convince their parents that they will actually be a great investment and then spend their time drinking, smoking, sleeping (around), and basically being a poor investment to their parents. That is a scam. That’s it for now!
Darlene
Interview Guru
http://www.interviewchatter.com/
sean
Apr 30, 2008 at 9:04 pm
“What other vehicle can we use to better prepare students to enter adulthood with all its challenges including the daily grind of work?”
The problem is that there is a glut of liberal arts, 4 year college students with no jobs waiting for them. At the same time there’s a severe and growing shortage for skilled laborers, tradespeople, etc. I worked with a local trade school that has a 98% placement rate, with many of their graduates starting at $40K to $50K as machinists, welders, plumbers, electrical engineers. And their students are hard cases - unemployable when they started 2 years earlier.
Why does no one address this fact? Because the institutions want to protect their enrollment. It’s more than the kids scamming the parents… it’s systemwide.
Darlene
May 1, 2008 at 5:44 am
I am pondering your arguement! I will be back with my thoughts…
One question:“What other vehicle can we use to better prepare students to enter adulthood with all its challenges including the daily grind of work?”
I missed your answer to my question. I shall check back later!
sean
May 1, 2008 at 6:49 am
We produced a documentary-style video on a school that worked with mostly disadvantaged lower income students, many were single parents or had been in trouble. It was founded as an orphanage from a bequest by the civil-war era head of Congress Thaddeus Stevens. It evolved into a trade school, tech school, and now is Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology. We followed a group of students through their second of their two years.
The school is focused on preparing students for employment. Local businesses play an active role in shaping procedures and curriculum. For instance, heads of printing companies advise on which prepress equipment and software they are using so that graduates are have the exact skills necessary. The instructors are from their respective industries, not academia; many are alumni who could be making much more $$$ running plants, designing buildings, etc. There’s a time clock in each class where students punch in and out, and are accountable. They are expected to dress and act like they are reporting for work.
The results are amazing. We filmed a career day where 50 companies paid to exhibit to recruit the 150 graduating students. One company for every 3 students. The FBI gets first crack at their electronics technicians. One student had a 4 year degree, couldn’t find a job, and came back to learn printing technology.
I loved college and grad school. But it’s disconnected from the practical realities students face, and is, in many, many cases, disconnected with the real world they’ll enter already saddled with debt.
I never took a marketing course in my life. For 20 years, I’ve interviewed and sometimes even hired employees with business and marketing degrees. There’s not one who came out of school who could sit down with a local dry cleaner, restaurant owner or carpet cleaning company and put together and implement a cost-effective, measurable marketing program.
Does a business owner care if you can recite the four Ps or five Ps of marketing to them or whatever it is to them? What they’re taught is so far divorced from practical application, I literally start from scratch with them.
Our office is like a marketer’s candy store, with all kinds of wild creative projects on display. I’ve had a number of the advisors of marketing interns I’ve used come and visit, some from $30K a year schools. They’re not interested, don’t look around, don’t ask questions. The Fedex driver is more interested in what we’re doing than these so-called marketing professors.
I’ve been in Academia and can assure you that many if not most see the real world as a threat, and few professors could get away with the nonsense they spew if their classes were filled with 40 year old students with life experience.
What’s the alternative?
One idea for those who want them to study business is to take the same money and buy a franchise. Why learn the theoretics of business when you can actually do it. They provide thorough training in every aspect, from accounting, management, operations, HR, marketing, customer service, etc. At the end of four years, you have practical experience, and equity in a valuable asset. Plus, your friends will be graduating with their Anthropology, American Studies and History of Comic Books degrees, and hiting you up for a job. You’ll then have the ultimate pleasure of making them practice saying “Would you like fries with that?” over and over.
jeff
May 1, 2008 at 11:23 am
i only know one person from my 6 year college career that actually used their degree to get the job that they currently have. i do, however, know many people who live with their parents because they can’t afford to live on their own due to the monthly student loan payment. you should go to school to learn about something you’re interested in. you shouldn’t approach college as your magical golden ticket to a successful future. if you find that most of the education you pay so dearly for doesn’t justify the expense, and that being an autodidact is more effective and cheaper, then you should be outraged when your classes are bullshit. when the professor cancels class, what is the first reaction from most of the students that pay so dearly for the education they’re not receiving? they’re happy they can stay in bed and nurse their hangover. quit being sheep, people. quit throwing money at the mcuniversitys and quit being so impressed when they resemble shopping malls instead of places of learning.
Darlene
May 1, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Sean, Let me get back in your good graces by agreeing with a portion of your argument. I love the idea of creating an alternative solution for 18 years old to garner skills, such as your marketing organization. I would love to see more training organizations that set high expectations, and invest time, money into young people. How many organizations exist out there that do what you speak about? Do you know others?
sean
May 1, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Darlene said Sean, Let me get back in your good graces by agreeing with a portion of your argument.
Darlene… you’re always in my good graces…
However, if you want to cinch the best graces, you don’t stop at agreeing with a portion :)
Ryan
May 11, 2008 at 12:27 am
I say college is a bad investment on the risk front, in that it is not backed by any assets whatsoever. At least if you invest in a franchise, you can recoup some loses through liquidation.
Comparing those with education to those without is a classic example of sample bias though. If we could do some general intelligence tests on a majority of the population, and then do our statistical regressions, it would make a lot more sense. Of course, colleges aren’t in the business of not getting students to enroll, so I doubt any study of the sort is going to be undertaken soon.
john
Jun 20, 2008 at 5:03 am
It is great to find people who will at least entertain the fact that college has become an overpriced bloated shake down of the american public. It takes too long, costs too much, and provides too little. The corporations are in on this scam because they want people to pay for their own training (via the university system) so they do not have to invest their billions in training. If you want to work for a corporation or public entitiy you better pony up and get your degree. If you want to be a business person or sales rep or franchise owner there is still much education required but it does not come from the university system. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on education (including two years in college) but most of that money was on very specific training systems for a very specific vehicle of business or sales. I also started a company based on these discussions to train people of all education levels how to make a great income. I know this is a shameless plug but when I saw this discussion I had to jump in. If you are looking for top notch business training from people who have actually done business in the real world check us out. Our site is http://www.thecollegedropoutsguide.com and is not for everyone but may be for you.
Hey
Jul 1, 2008 at 10:38 am
Some people don’t use college for videogames and shit.
sean
Jul 1, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Hey wrote: Some people don’t use college for videogames and shit. Thanks for the insightful comment, Hey. Sorry you ran off so fast. Your turn on Guitar Hero, aye?
Kelly aka MM
Jul 2, 2008 at 5:21 am
I agree with Sean on this one…but as a parent of two grown young men I did cling to the old axiom that getting a College education makes it easier to get a good paying job for a long time (I’m a Jewish mother for heavens sake what do you want from me OY!)-HOWEVER-as a college student myself, I have been in class after class with YOUNG students who are ill-prepared for class, don’t show-up and could care-less about their education. To which I say why bother? Get a job, something that inspires you and excites you (and I don’t mean become a producer of “Girls Gone Wild Videos)
$160k+ is a little expensive for tax-payers and parents to pay to help you “find yourself” don’t you think, with no guarntee that you will; especially when the “finding yourself” usually finds you living back at the folks in your old bedroom mooching off the Old Man.
Universities today are indocrination centers who have little interest in “developing” educated individuals that can function in today’s work force. I would argue however, educational travesty starts in our Public school system. Does anyone know how many college freshman have to be remediated in Math, English and science? 85% of them based on a conversation I had with an admissions adivsor. That’s sad, not only is it sad it should piss every single tax-payer off. Our kids can’t read write or do arithmetic when they graduate from High School!
College is a scam, it’s over-rated, expensive and exists for tenured professors to make a name for themselves through writing papers that no one gives except fellow academia’s give a rats ass about.
What American Universities are teaching our children is how to become good Socialists. They can’t think for themselves, and buy into whatever they see on VH1 or MTV. Their force-fed nonsense for 4 years and at the end of it they are convinced that they “hate” corporate america (although one has to asks oneselves how they plan to make a living if the don’t work for “the enemy”?).
$40,000 a year and up for a college education is a travesty, and what does a proud parent or tax-payer get for their money? A life-time boarder?
I raised both my kids to be independent, productive, self sufficient individuals who think for themselves and college didn’t contribute one iota of that. They are both productive young adults who don’t live on my dime. My oldest quit college, is working in a Managment position. My youngest is going to a trade school and working full-time in his chosen field.
They are both working and learning real-life lessons in the real world and not some artificial construct of life at a University. It is a poor and expensive substitute for real life substance.
Take your $160,000 and with guidance from reputable folks like Sean, find a business that meets your talents and passions and go for it!
sean
Jul 2, 2008 at 6:00 am
I taught English at a state university for several years. Our program for English Composition was somewhat of a model because we had a writing assessment (”Proficiency Exam”) that was a requirement for graduation. It was given in conjunction with Freshman English, but was evaluated by three faculty members (not the student’s teacher) and had to demonstrate that the student could write a basic essay with a clear thesis, supporting paragraphs and conclusion with less-than-abominable grammar and spelling. They could retake the class as many times as they wanted, but couldn’t pass until they met the basic proficiency requirements.
What’s amazing is that this was considered revolutionary… even subversive It not only held the students accountable, but held the faculty accountable as well. We test to get in… it makes sense to test to get out. The lack of accountability has fostered lazy faculty and lazy students alike.
When I hire a person with a marketing degree for a position in my marketing company, I know that I will be starting from scratch. I’m not being facetious when I say that I see their time as waiters and waitresses as more valuable to my clients than their time listening to pompous windbag marketing profs who couldn’t run a lemonade stand.
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