Franchise Pick

100 opinions for Does Pink Stink or is Mary Kay O.K.?

• MKis4GIRLS
  Feb 7, 2007 at 9:38 pm

  Mary Kay can be a great thing for anyone. Here’s the problem, overzealous people ruin it for the rest of us.

  Perfect example of overzealous people, Mark Fuller! Character in new MLM movie

  http://www.believethemovie.com

  Don’t be like him and it will be a great experience for you!

• laura
  Feb 8, 2007 at 6:44 pm

  Both. I believe there are very good women in Mary Kay who are enjoying selling the product and NOT scamming women. There are those who can glorify God by being honest about what to expect about the opportunity. Friendships can surely enrich women’s lives. In Mary Kay, as well as other MLM’s, their “training coaches” teach “positivity” and those teachings can also elevate one’s self-esteem thus enriching their lives.

  HOWEVER, and that’s a BIG HOWEVER, there IS the dark side of Mary Kay. I have seen it first hand. Manipulation, both emotional and financial; deceit in the form of pressuring to purchase unnecessary inventory before the consultant is given her alotted time to make that decision; withholding common known facts such as retention rates which would give the consultant a better picture of the possibility of success (or effort required) before taking a plunge to directorship and on and on - the list is long.

  In the last 4 years, I have read hundreds of similar stories whereby the stress involved in perpetual recruiting, telling half-truths, being suppressed to tell the truth crushes the spirit. Not only are their spirit and enthusiasm diminished, the stress takes it’s toll physically. As a former director myself, I can attest to the stress involved in worrying about production (if we will make it this month or not….seemingly watching the month tick away. I’ve seen women pray to God for their next “Emerald Star” ( a recruit who will come in with a $3600 inventory) and use God and scripture to manipulate women into purchases, going on trips they really couldn’t afford, staying with MK even though they don’t want to (God brought you here, he’ll see you thru it type responses) and on and on…THAT is not enriching a woman’s life.

  Many a consultant are driven away by abusive members. I’ve also witnessed good people become caught up in the recognition and praise aspect of the MLM and make poor choices about finances and family in pursuit of materialism (mansions, cars, jewelry, money).

  MLM’s are very scary. Scary because they preach about God, yet pursue materialism. God said you cannot worship two Gods. Someone is going to lose.

• sean
  Feb 8, 2007 at 6:53 pm

  Laura:

  What you’re describing sounds more like a cult than a business opportunity. Is Mary Kay a cult?

• VIcki
  Feb 9, 2007 at 10:17 am

  Many many people HAVE compared MK to a cult… and from my limited experience it is a cult…

  People urging everyone to “join us”. Consultants spewing scripts that they were taught about how you can quit your J-O-B because MK will set you free. In order to earn a mediocre income, you have to work harder than any 9 to 5 job I’ve ever had.

  I’ll keep my J-O-B.. and the great benefits I get with it as well. MK has no way of enriching my life. I have a better job, and I spend a lot less on other brands of cosmetics that make me look just as beautiful!

• Franchise Pick - Is Mary Kay Cosmetics a "Cult of Greed"?
  Feb 9, 2007 at 11:08 am

  […] Comments from Franchise Pick readers on our recent (Does Pink Stink or is Mary Kay O.K.? ) post raise the question:  Is Mary Kay Cosmetics an inspiring business opportunity that empowers women to reach their full potential OR an insidious cult that preys on the hopes and dreams of the vulnerable for their own financial gain?  Do you have any experience with Mary Kay Cosmetics?  Share your view by leaving a comment. […]

• Jen
  Feb 16, 2007 at 5:44 pm

  Hahahaha….that movie looks funny. Thanks for the post. I hope they show it here in my state. I watched the Mark Fuller videos and laughed so hard :)

  I hope people hear about it.
  http://www.believethemovie.com

• Paul
  Feb 18, 2007 at 6:05 pm

  Since this topic was started, Mary Kay Inc has added a new item on their Home page. Click on “Just the Facts” on the lower left side.

• sean
  Feb 20, 2007 at 1:14 pm

  Thanks, Paul.

  Interesting… they spend a lot of space clarifying that they’re not a pyramid scheme. Didn’t touch on the “Cult” aspect, though the line about people misinterpreting the reference to “God” may have been in response to this allegation.

  Is Mary Kay reading Franchise Pick?

• Paul
  Feb 20, 2007 at 3:30 pm

  “Is Mary Kay reading Franchise Pick?”

  Wouldn’t know … I don’t work for MKC.

  A cult: only if you consider enthusiasm and pride to be cultish. Some gangs use Oakland Raider colors, but that doesn’t mean that all Raider fans are gang members. Over the top enthusiasm and the wanton destruction of people and property who disagree with you could apply to some Italian soccer fans. :-)

  Is sales in general a cult? I know a lot of very proud salespeople. I’m a salesman. What makes MK different is that their consultants encourage other people to become consultants. I don’t consider that to be bad, since there are no sales from consultant to consultant.

  God: A lot of MK consultants and directors IMO over-do the “God has blessed my business”. I never heard MK Ash make some of the statements that these people make. Is being a God-fearing person wrong? IMO, only when a person tries to force it on another, or uses it to determine whether a person is “good” or “bad”. I know a lot of aetheists/agnostics who are very moral people (maybe I don’t associate with the immoral ones), and I’ve never given a dime to a TV preacher.

• laura
  Feb 25, 2007 at 7:34 am

  Paul,

  Mary Kay has most likely read Franchise Pick. They make their rounds on many sites.

  Regarding your comment about “no sales from consultant to consultant,” not legally, no, but it does happen and very often. In fact, there are plenty of sales from consultant to consultant and even more from director to consultant which, as most of us know, crosses the pyramid line where an MLM is concerned. The company strongly discourages sales from within, but many in the salesforce ignore those requests and actually encourage consultants to lie to the company about whose money was used to purchase inventory.

  Desperate recruiters and directors who NEED production to sustain their unit or achieve another level oftentimes “sell” inventory to their consultants/recruits by using their own credit cards requiring consultants to “pay them back” and that is totally against company policy. Others simply use the consultant ID to order product (for production) but keep it for themselves.

  Many a happy consultant are convinced that these dark practices only involve a minority in Mary Kay, but I am convinced otherwise.

  A cult? Personally, I hate using that term but many of the “cult” definitions apply especially where like-mindedness occurs, but then again, Christians could be considered a cult too. They have a God they worship and the bible wants us to be “transformed to the likeness of Christ” and further states worshippers becoming “like-minded,” so does that make us a cult? No, not when you really understand the true nature of harmful cults vs. an organization of people with a common interest. Selling make-up does not make one “way outside the mainstream of normal behavior.”

• mommy
  Mar 3, 2007 at 10:03 pm

  It’s not a cult, but it *just* skates on the edges of a pyramid scheme. As a former Mary Kay Sales Director I can testify to everything Laura said. I was lied to by my director from the beginning. “I work 15 hours a week and I make an executive income! It’s SOOO much easier when you get to be a director! Just find a way and make a way and then you’ll just get to sit back and collect the commission checks!”

  Stupidly, I did as I was told to the tune of more than $10K in credit card debt and a lot of missed time with my children, only to get there and find that being a director is much harder than being a consultant and you STILL DON’T make any money after you add up all the expenses. I spent 3 years in MK. Year one I lost $78. Year 2 I went for directorship and lost $7,000 year 3 I was a director and then I quit and I still lost $4,000.

  Ladies, if you’re looking for info on MK because someone has approached you about signing up, RUN the other way and don’t look back! Those “salaries” the Mary Kay lady showed you in the magazine? They don’t reflect the chargebacks, car payments, etc. that the company deducts from directors’ deposits. And those are the top of a VERY large group of women, and they’re still not making as much as the compny would like potential recruits to think. The recruiter told you it only casts $100 to start, right? Yes and no. Your starter kit is $100, and NOT RETURNABLE after it’s opened (read that fine print). But then after you get your kit, someone is going to want to talk to you about “how serious you are about your new buisness” and “investing money in yourself” to buy INVENTORY. New recruits and inventory orders are what the MK pyramid is based on. Trust me — I used these scripts to get people to buy $4,000 worth of makeup because at the time I believed in it.

  It’s all just smoke and mirrors. 99 percent of the the people never make any money or lose money. The only way to get to the top is to have no conscience and great charisma. If those two attributes are yours, you can make a fortune in Mary Kay — call an NSD and sign up under her personally and you’ll go straight to the top. But the price of getting there is very, very high.

• Franchise Pick - Ex-Mary Kay Consultant Shares Her Experience
  Mar 4, 2007 at 3:07 am

  […] In a recent post (which was prompted by disturbing comments left on Franchise Pick), we asked:  “Is Mary Kay Cosmetics a Cult?”  This prompted a number of comments that can be viewed on previous posts (”Does Pink Stink or Is Mary Kay OK?” and  “Is Mary Kay Cosmetics A ‘Cult of Greed’?”) […]

• Bea
  May 5, 2007 at 10:06 pm

  If you compare the signs of “cult” to the MK business opportunity you’ll see a frightening resemblence.

  I’ve been there. I know. There is a great deal of emotional blackmail with MK. http://www.pinktruth.com is right “on target” with the articles posted there.

• RONDA
  Jul 10, 2007 at 11:41 am

  I WISH THAT I WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS BEFORE I TOOK OUT A 5000 DOLLAR LOAN AND GAVE IT ALL TO MY DIRECTOR, BECAUSE I WAS LEAD TO BELIEVE I NEEDED INVENTORY ON MY SHELF TO MAKE A PROFIT. WELL GUESS WHAT, I STILL HAVE THAT INVENTORY SITTING ON MY SHELF FOR MY PERSONAL USE, BECAUSE I NEVER GAINED A CUSTOMER BASE TO SELL IT. I QUICKLY LEARNED THAT I WAS SPENDING MORE THAN I WAS BRING IN, I CONSTANTLY WAS PERSUADED TO GET TO “NEW” PRODUCTS IN WHICH THEY CHANGED EVERY OTHER MONTH TO STAY IN YOUR POCKET. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE IN PINK TAKE OFF LIKE A TRACK STAR IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.

• Paul
  Jul 10, 2007 at 9:23 pm

  So Ronda, why didn’t you return the excess inventory and get 90% of your money back?

• nat
  Jul 15, 2007 at 6:34 am

  Im an ex Mary Kay lady and while I am no longer with the company i have had nothing but prise for the company and the women I worked with.

  I can not relate to stories of beeing persuaded in to holding lots of stock or handing over lots of cash.

  It is always easy to look outside of our selves to find blame for a situation when it ends badly, but how about trying to be an adult and realsing NOBODY MAKES YOU DO ANYTHING, YOU MAKE A CHOICE.

  Wether it be good or bad it is a choice. I was taught to put myself and my family first which is what i did. Not everyone can be trusted but do we blame a company for the deception of others?

  If something dosent sound right or isnt going to work of you in a positive way DONT DO IT. How simple is that!

• mickey
  Jul 16, 2007 at 6:16 am

  I have just started as a MK consultant. I have not lost any money, I have made money. Not a lot, but enough for a beginner, I would say.
  I think it is importent to be realistic about your financial situation. I do not place an order until I’ve reached the 50% limit, I have skin care classes at a regular basis. I do not hold lots of stock, why?
  I think it depends a lot on who your recruiter is, what your business-strategy is and what your expectations are.
  If you see persons who acting against the company policy, why don’t you report them?

  Mickey

• RONDA
  Jul 19, 2007 at 7:40 am

  I am in the process of returning my inventory, so that I can receive some of my money back. For Nat, I am glad that you cannot relate to being persuaded, but a lot of people can. Mary Kay was presented in a very positive way and the Director who spoke with me and ordered my first inventory assured me that, it was the best way to see profit, also she mentioned what she makes in the business. I’ve learned several lessons from this experience and I do take responsibility. Still proceed with caution. Everything that looks gold isn’t.

• Berry
  Aug 6, 2007 at 12:17 pm

  As a former MK consultant I must share a few details of my 8 months. Having quit my job two weeks before I signed up for MK blindly, and behind my family’s back because I knew they would talk me out of it.. (Oh why did I ever do that!) In that time I borrowed $7K from my stepdad promising to pay it alllll back in a year or less! I spent $3k+ my first order, then signed up for seminar the next month thinking I was going to be training and taught at this glorfied convention. It was nothing but a bunch of women standing on stage crying over, “Oh I was so poor and lonely, and shy, and then Mary Kay happened” Gloating about their checks and classes, their faces, their cars. I ditched out a few times on the meetings claiming I was sick when I was bored out of my mind!!! I should have run then!!
  My director pushed me when we got back to buy more, become a “Star” Oh it’s ok to use your mom’s credit card, she knows you have it, just buy $400, you’ll sell the stuff and pay her back, only $400 more, Oh just $1000 and you’re in!!
  Meanwhile I was charging my mom’s credit card to that special paypal like account so I could pay my rent and cellphone bill.
  That October, my mother died, my stepdad told me to not worry about paying him back, and I hadnt ordered in two months. I tried selling my product to customers for 50% off to get rent money.
  I hadn’t paid my credit cards in two months. I couldnt pay my cellphone bill that month.
  Over Thanksgiving I got very sick with what was almost pnemonia. Missed the first meeting ever, got barked at for it. Oh you’re not really sick. Asked the church to give me money for medicine.
  Christmas is coming, let’s wrap packages. Spent my last $20 on lofas, mugs, and mindless nicnacks. Spent 5 hours wrapping my directors packages, made two for me.
  Had no money for presents for my family.
  Was invited by my director to NYC for the day, her treat.. she paid for lunch, I wasnt feeling well, she paid $4 for me, I paid $15 for the train ticket and anything else we did that day I paid my own way.
  I had no rent money.
  Beginning of January, she’d asked me to stay at her house to make sure her kids got out to school every day when at their age, I was getting myself out to school everyday. Her husband was going to be home the entire time, but couldnt make sure his own kids got out because he left for work too early.
  I said no, she got mad and yelled at me for being a lazy a** bum who can’t do anything for herself. I didn’t talk to her for a month, she calls me up and asks if I’m still mad at her and wants to get together for lunch.
  Another $10 I really didn’t have.
  I was selling back after that day I decided, she was fake and flakey.
  I called the company and said I was selling back and told the nice lady on the phone everything. About how I watched my director use inactive consultant’s names to buy product, fudge over customers orders, ‘miscount’ the money, etc, etc, etc.
  Overall, I’m glad I’m out for ever, I warn every women I come into contact with that gets to know me. I say, I’m in $10k worth of debt because of Mary Kay. I was out of work for over a year because no one would hire me having not worked in so long.
  I had been brainwashed and pinkified, now grandted I still like the colour pink, but my brain is de-washed and back to a normal 9-5 job where it belongs. It’s so nice to get a paycheck every week.

  And really, the average women on the average income can’t afford to spend $13 on a tube of lipgloss and frankly doesn’t want to when they can wait for a sale at the drugstore and get one for $4.
  The only thing left of Mary Kay is the one lipgloss I still have, only because I cant find another brand that has this perfect colour.

  If someone is asking you to join Mary Kay, run, get away, just go! Dont be afraid to hurt their feelings, stand up for yourself and your REAL job and just SAY NO!!

• MKForever
  Aug 6, 2007 at 2:59 pm

  Wow. What a great loss to MK not to have you.

  You lie to your family, make promises you can’t keep, borrow money you can’t repay, criticize women who are successful when you should shut up, listen, and learn, run up your mother’s credit card without permission, beg for charity from your church and blame everyone else because the world will not treat you to a life of luxury, free of charge. While I don’t condone her language, especially as a MK representative, I think she’s right in calling you “a lazy a** bum who can’t do anything for herself.”

  Why don’t you all admit that you’re too lazy to become a success using the Mary Kay program, so you must call it a scam. It’s you who are the frauds, pretending to be self-motivated and ambitious when you want others to make you successful.

  You resent Mary Kay herself because she is all that you are not, all that you will never be. I hope someday MK will create a make-up to cover up all you’re shortcomings. It will make all of us in MK multimillionaires overnight!

• Brenda
  Aug 9, 2007 at 7:35 pm

  I can’t believe some of the things that are being said on this site. Mary Kay works if you work it right! Regardless of what your director tells you, you are in business for your self. Maybe there are directors that push you to purchase products or tell half truths. maybe you need to read and figure out for your self how to build your business instead of whining and complaining.

• sean
  Aug 10, 2007 at 5:28 am

  Brenda said: “I can’t believe some of the things that are being said on this site…. maybe you need to read and figure out for your self how to build your business instead of whining and complaining.”

  Brenda: As a business owner and a marketing guy, I’m not a big fan of whining or passing the buck. In franchising, distributorships, direct sales, etc. there are many who join up, want to own their businesses, but never take responsibility for their own success. They think it should be provided to them on a silver platter.
  However, the complaints about MK seem to be consistent and widespread, both here and on other sites (like http://www.pinktruth.com). If MK is dedicated to improving the lives and empowering women, do you think they need to do a better job of managing expectations of those joining? Should they be more selective in who they recruit? It seems they are creating a lot of bad “press” here on the Internet, yet they don’t publicly address these allegations (at least that I’ve seen). This bad press affects your ability to sell MK products, as the brand is gaining a negative connotation.
  If this many women feel cheated or manipulated, shouldn’t successful MK sellers urge MK corporate to address these issues? In my experience, the worst thing you can do when being blogged about is not joining the conversation.
  At FranchisePick.Com, we have a policy that we will post responses word-for-word from any company being discussed here. We are interested in open discussions and constructive dialogue that can lead to improvements. So far, MK has declined our offer (by not responding). Perhaps you can extend the offer on our behalf.

• FOREVER PINK
  Aug 11, 2007 at 6:19 am

  I am a consultant and I like being a consultant. With Mk you have to work it and it will work or you can sit back and whine about how you were made to purchase or sign up or whatever. I don’t think anyone can make anyone do anything. Here is the thing this business is for women and want to have their own business. Women who are not afraid of a hard work. Are there bad people in MK? Yes, and there are bad people in any business. Take the PT website the person that has it is REALLY

• MKBiz
  Aug 13, 2007 at 10:04 pm

  FYI, if you would like a balanced view of MK you will need to visit a site that is neutral, which you will not find. For those that think PT is nothing but horror stories, that is because that is the way the moderator wants it to look. The moderator deletes any posetive post or many even neutral posts if it doesn’t support her anti Mk opionin. If someone breaks the rules about posting -they are simply banned and not able to post anymore.

  Guess anyone could back up their opinions if they only allowed what they want to portray. If it is their blog they have a right to do whatever they want but to call it “fact” or “the truth” -nope, not hardly.

  Believe PT and let me pee on your leg and I will tell you it’s raining.

• sean
  Aug 14, 2007 at 6:43 am

  MKBiz:
  Thanks for that last offer, but I’ll stick to the Weather Channel.
  RE: Balanced View. This site is neutral. I’ve done my best to ask for both sides of the story & let the visitors express their opinions, pro & con. Comments are not censored.
  In defense of the Pink Truth site , I think it’s an informative site that doesn’t pretend to be impartial. Of course it portrays one strong viewpoint, but doesn’t the MK website do the same on the positive side? I don’t see any place to leave a negative comment on the MK site.
  All are free to express their opinions at Franchise Pick. Our goal is to help entrepreneurs make informed decisions, not tell them what to do. We will even post a response from any company discussed here, word for word. The readers can decide for themselves which side they agree with, and whether they want to invest in a given opportunity. But at least they can do it with eyes wide open.

• MKBiz
  Aug 15, 2007 at 7:18 pm

  The Mary Kay site doesn’t call people liars and try to discredit everyone. PT would have you believe that you can only succeed in Mary Kay if you are dishonest and abuse people - if this was true, the Company would have failed by now. (Won’t disagree that bad things can happen).

  Mary Kay doesn’t promise that if you join you will become a millionaire - it is an opportunity and then success stories are shared.

  As far as your site being neutral, I have never seen it posted on any proMK site and even the titles of most of the topice lean more towards negative attitudes than posetive. But hey, as I said before it is your blog.

  And when I log onto a site (PT) that makes fun of a women’s weight and everyone jumps on the band wagon - when the post was to show others that someone had worn pants, I don’t consider that informative, I consider it mean. Since many on PT are still in Mary Kay, they poor thing could have been reading all the nasty commens from her fellow blogmates.

  As far as Corporate, I can not speak for them but I guess if one feels any press is good press, even if it is bad, why should MK give a site any attention. It is exactly what the site wants -Publicity.

  From my view point, it would be a little like a mesquito thinking it was going to hurt an elephant by stinging it.

  Well, thanks for the space and letting me post.
  Have a great day.

• sean
  Aug 15, 2007 at 7:32 pm

  No problem… thanks for adding to the dialogue

• NeutralGround
  Aug 16, 2007 at 5:37 pm

  MKBiz,
  You come across very strongly. Why can’t you simply share one of those success stories with us instead of “going for the jugular” with PT? I am a former consultant and while I am an adult who is capable of making decisions, I was influenced by what my director was telling me. Afterall, she is a NSD who has been in MK for some 17 years. I figure she has the experience and all the information on her unitnet site is accurate and can be trusted. The information shared by her through various emails and her site make one think you can make a 6 figure income with very little hours worked. I was encouraged to recruit, recruit, recruit!! She wanted any warm body to be interviewed. I tried ALL the booking strategies she recommended to no avail. It became apparent to me that people did not want to be “warm chatted” while out shopping and they did not want to hostess a “skincare class.” I knew I was at the end when a group of women laughed at me when I was introduced as the neighborhood “Mary Kay lady.” MK consultants do not have the reputation they once had. They are now the butt of jokes and I don’t wish to be laughed at for trying to better myself and help other women look and feel great. I have a J-O-B that pays over $30/hr and I didn’t join MK just for the money. I truly wanted to teach skincare and help women feel good about themselves. I am glad that I returned my inventory ($2200 worth) and got 90% of my money back, paid off the credit card, closed the MK account and MAYBE had $100 left.

• MKBiz
  Aug 16, 2007 at 10:19 pm

  In all fairness, I guess one more visit here won’t kill me and since you asked - and I can only share my experience with you. I will give you what I call my success story.

  1992-working as financial analyst 60/70 hours/week salaried. Babysitter raising my two kids. (Climbing corporate ladder was going to be CFO of Co). Dad at 57 got leukemia, lost the battle at 58, realized my priorities were messed up. Got serious with my parttime Mary Kay business. 4 months later won the car, 2 months later was a director. (1994) - 2 months later resigned for Co..
  13 years later, 6 cars later, (no not the Cadillac, not willing to spend the time it would take to earn and maintain it). I was taught to sell this product, I teach my unit members to sell this product. I don’t frontload, I believe inventory should be built as the consultant learns her market and stock what she is going to be selling. No need to order all at once because there is no restrictions on how often you can order. No, I have never broken 6 digits but I earn a very good income, work with a delightful and intelligent unit, love my clients and have their respect, can go on the field trips with the kids, etc.. be there when my husband gets off his third shift job and
  have the flexibility to do the things I want to do. Ironically enough (my secure previous job) the Company was bought out last month and closed the facility and they are all without jobs now.
  (..I make more in MK than I did at that CAREER)

  And, I am happy to say that in my Community, I am thought of as a successful small business owner. Yes, there are times I am refered to as the Mk Lady but I can think of other things that would be far worse.

  I have never warm stalked anyone, find it very uncomfortable for all concerned and do not have any problem getting bookings - for that matter I have to turn leads over to my unit because I can not keep up with what we get for bridal fairs, expo’s etc… and I don’t believe a consultant should recruit until she has built a strong customer base…so I guess some of what makes us successful is in part how we see ourselves.

  Sorry, Neutral Ground that Mary Kay didn’t work for you, it is great you gave it a try and with the buyback the Company offers, didn’t end up loosing moeny for having tried it. I don’t know anyone now a days that someone isn’t making a joke about. Lawyers get bashed all the time, I don’t see them quiting because of it. We (Women) just have a hard time separating personal feelings versus business feelings. I love what I do, I make good money, and hang around loads of posetive people, so if someone wants to laugh or make fun of me, I say at least if they are picking on me, they are leaving someone else alone.

  I wasn’t trying to be mean in my other posts, as much as trying to make a point. Sorry that tone and inflection can not be inserted into an email.

  Have a super great day everyone, I know I will.

  Pink hugs to all! :)

• MKBiz
  Aug 16, 2007 at 10:29 pm

  Sean,

  Just a message for you, you don’t have to post it but since you seem to think PT is so crediable, have you visited http://www.ptlies.com or
  http://somecallmeduh.wordpress.com (warning -not censored)
  or http://www.mypinktruth.wordpress.com - I find it interesting there are more anti PT blogs than anti MK blogs.
  And for the first time in blog world history, the only thing that pro mk and anti mk people seem to agree on is that PT and TC is worse than anything else.

  Read long enough and TC isn’t interested in protecting people - she is more interesed in taking advantage of those that have already been taking advantage of. It is really sad. (oh and making a name for herself).

• my my my
  Aug 17, 2007 at 5:09 am

  Well MKForever, I must say that you yourself make such a fine impression of Mary Kay. LOL Thank you for showing what some at Pink Truth are talking about. There are some fine, wonderful, intelligent active Mary Kay people at Pink Truth but you would know that if you bothered to actually read. The ones such as yourself do not like it because it exposes Mary Kay unethical practices by many.

  MKForever said:

  Why don’t you all admit that you’re too lazy to become a success using the Mary Kay program, so you must call it a scam. It’s you who are the frauds, pretending to be self-motivated and ambitious when you want others to make you successful.

  Really? I am neither lazy and I am ambitious but since you want to claim we ALL are otherwise, then maybe you could give me a few examples of my life showing where I am lazy and not ambitious. Please do. I would love to improve on me if you can list them for me. LOL

  MKForever said: You resent Mary Kay herself because she is all that you are not, all that you will never be. I hope someday MK will create a make-up to cover up all you’re shortcomings. It will make all of us in MK multimillionaires overnight!

  I do not resent Mary Kay. She’s dead. I am also not interested in becoming a multimillionaire (but that statement sure shows where your thinking is at).

• sean
  Aug 17, 2007 at 10:09 am

  have you visited http://www.ptlies.com or
  http://somecallmeduh.wordpress.com (warning -not censored)
  MKBiz: Tell me that you’re not citing the Duh site as a credible… anything. I just about tossed up my raisin bagel when I got there and saw some hairy pierced and acned man-boobs (I hope they were man-boobs).
  I have a pretty sick sense of humor, but that visit caused me some irreparable harm.
  There’s something seriously wrong with some of you ladies. You’re scaring me.

• MKForever
  Aug 17, 2007 at 10:29 am

  my my my:
  Please accept my heartfelt apology. I didn’t mean to say you, individually, were lazy. I do not know that about you, specifically. I should have said that you waste your time dwelling on a venture that didn’t work out - for whatever reason - and choose to spend your time bashing the opportunity you failed at rather than picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, and moving down the road wiser for the experience.
  I am trying to help you when I say: Time to move on, girl! Follow my advice and in a few months I guarantee you will be thanking me.
  We don’t hate you. We pity you.
  The ones such as yourself do not like it because it exposes Mary Kay unethical practices by many….
  Respectfully, you are dead wrong. (I like how it’s ok for you to presume you know MY mind). I don’t like it because I - and others like me - have decided to become empowered and successful as part of Mary Kay. We get up every day and take responsibility for our own success. We don’t have time to blame others - we’re too busy being successful. By spreading lies and trying to tear down this respected brand it is YOU - and the timewasters like you - who are hurting the women of Mary Kay… not MK itself.

• Duh
  Aug 17, 2007 at 10:57 am

  Wow Sean, that was just the reaction I was going for!

  For all of you wondering, my site is really not for information purposes (obviously). We are all internet “friends” that were banned from Pink Truth for various reasons.

  Not that I can’t back up what I say on there, but it’s really a place that people can go once they realize that Pink Truth and Tracy Coenen are full of crap.

  Coincidentally, we all like to look at naked, hairy, pimply man boobs.

  So if you enjoy man boobs and have been involved in any way with Tracy and Pink Truth, you will “get” my site. If not, you will think we are a bunch of lunatics.

• sean
  Aug 17, 2007 at 12:36 pm

  DUH: Congrats on your successful strategy!
  Back when I was teaching Creative Writing at a University, I had the misfortune of reading (at least the first few pages of) the singularly most boring short story ever written. When I confronted the student, he said: “That was just the reaction I was going for!”
  I guess you can succeed and fail simultaneously:
  You grossed me out but didn’t enlighten me as to why Tracy and Pink Truth are the new Manson family. I just can’t get past that haunting image.
  It’s bad enough that I’ve got to see them in the mirror every morning (sans piercings), but now the snctity of my computer screen has been violated.
  Gotta go with lunatics for the time being.

• Duh
  Aug 17, 2007 at 12:40 pm

  SEAN: I’m not here to enlighten you! Geez, do you think that complete strangers are here solely to entertain and inform you?

  BTW, the girls and I would love to take a gander at your man boobs. Anytime you wanna be a star, hit me up. You know where to find me… ;)

• BFBF
  Aug 17, 2007 at 12:56 pm

  Glad you stopped by Sean. Stick around you might actually find you learned something at the end of the day.

  Not all things are what they seem on the surface.

• sean
  Aug 17, 2007 at 1:11 pm

  DUH:
  …Geez, do you think that complete strangers are here solely to entertain and inform you?
  Bingo! Honestly, that’s exactly what I think. Not just this blog, but society, existence and the universe in general.
  …I would love to take a gander at your man boobs. Anytime you wanna be a star, hit me up.
  Sorry, but right now I’m in licensing negotiations for an exclusive with Mary Kay. They want me to be the spokesperson and model for their male cosmetic line and direct sales program (Simply called SEAN!). Pink Hummers for top performers… the works.
  If my exclusive with them - and the Maidenform Male deal - fall through, the man boobs (manboobs? man-boobs?) are yours.
  Sean
  PS: As a lover of the outrageous, I do appreciate that you’ve actually created an Anti-Anti-Mary Kay website. If someone wants to create an anti-http://somecallmeduh.wordpress.com website, I will give them their own, exclusive blog post and links (visible in every country in the world) because it would entertain and inform me. If we kept this going on exponentially, I bet we could all get on the Daily Show.

• MKBiz
  Aug 17, 2007 at 1:20 pm

  Sean, sorry, just realized I typed one site twice but didn’t include http://www.mypinktruth.wordpress.com

  and glad you enjoyed Duh’s site, yes, some of the top if over the top but some is very entertaining, please forgive the few, they are recovering from PT!
  :)

• Duh
  Aug 17, 2007 at 1:38 pm

  Aww, do you think we can make it that other fake news show? What’s it called? The O’Reilly Factor? Ole Bill’s into kinky sex with his loofahs and falafels. I’ll bet he’ll show me his man boobs.

  This has gone way, WAY too far. LOL

• sean
  Aug 17, 2007 at 4:08 pm

  Now it’s gone farther:
  FranchisePick.Com to Appear on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart

• my my my
  Aug 17, 2007 at 4:14 pm

  MKForever said: Please accept my heartfelt apology. I didn’t mean to say you, individually, were lazy.

  Yes, yes, I can just feel that “heartfelt” sincere feeling about you, along with the venom that is oozing from the rest of your message. Thank you so much for the attempt though, it really was a nice gesture.

  MKForever said: I do not know that about you, specifically. I should have said that you waste your time dwelling on a venture that didn’t work out - for whatever reason - and choose to spend your time bashing the opportunity you failed at rather than picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, and moving down the road wiser for the experience.

  Goodness, you do assume too much. Well, which is it MKForever, do you not know me or do you have some sort of crystal ball in front of you with my life story in it? Have I ever been in Mary Kay? Or, could I be a concerned family member of someone who has fallen into the pink cult? Or, could I just be someone who happens to read Pink Truth and draw my own conclusions about what is truth and what is not? My conclusion is that Mary Kay is a cult. Certainly you will not try to deny that Mary Kay directors send out emails with Bible verses attached to them that are used out of context will you? Of course that is an easy thing to do if people do not actually know what the Bible says. If you have never received any of these (LOL, right) rest assured, I have plenty of them. Another thing an active Mary Kay person sent me was a copy of the little flyer that went out about a month ago claiming that Harvard teaches Mary Kay in their classes. However, I am sure someone such as yourself would set that record straight for anyone who believes that and would inform them that it (is/was) a case study. Right?

  MKForever said: I am trying to help you when I say: Time to move on, girl! Follow my advice and in a few months I guarantee you will be thanking me. No no, let me go ahead and thank you now instead of later. I suppose I should explain why. Because you are one of the most angry, bitter, nastiest people inside that I have ever encountered who claims to be with Mary Kay and now, more than ever, I can see why there is a need for a place like Pink Truth to get the truth out, for not only the potential recruits but also for the family members. So, thank you so much MKForever, I will be on my way over to Pink Truth after I post to order some of their Pink Truth cards. Also, anyone I happen to encounter who even thinks they want to represent Mary Kay (also any customers I happen to run into), I will make sure to direct them to this site also to see your sweet sweet words not only to myself but to the girl who’s mother died, and of you with your words of wisdom to her because I’m sure with the response you gave her, they will be most impressed.

  MKForever said: We don’t hate you. We pity you. Well thank you MKForever, I would love to know exactly what for but it does not matter because do you know what I am going to do for you? I am going to pray for you. Two reasons for that: (One), is that you will be able to unload all of that anger and venom you appear to be lugging around and (two), because I can and there is nothing you can do about it. LOL

  MKForever said: Respectfully, you are dead wrong. (I like how it’s ok for you to presume you know MY mind). I don’t like it because I - and others like me - have decided to become empowered and successful as part of Mary Kay. We get up every day and take responsibility for our own success. We don’t have time to blame others - we’re too busy being successful. Oh yes, ok, my mistake, I should have realized with such a nice person as yourself that I am sure you tell anyone you recruit (if you recruit - if you do not recruit then my apologies, and skip right over this little part) that they can return product up to 12 months after they order it, not just within their first year of joining Mary Kay, but continuously, and I am also sure that you advise them that if they recruit anyone and that person decides to return their product there will be a chargeback on the commission that was made on those products, (after all, it would be wrong not to give them the important facts, right?) and I am most certain that you inform them completely about the medical benefits and retirement plan they receive - oops wait, there aren’t any are there? My mistake again. So you now have me pegged as not only lazy and no ambition, but I am not successful either? LOL My only conclusion to draw from your statement is that success means angry, bitter, nasty. If that is the definition then well, I guess I am successful at times but you do such a great job at being successful I have to give applause to you.

  MKForever said: By spreading lies and trying to tear down this respected brand it is YOU - and the timewasters like you - who are hurting the women of Mary Kay… not MK itself. ok, now you will have to remind me here, exactly what lies have I spread?

  It’s been a great exchange with you MKForever and as your words will live forever now (because I’ll have a screenshot even if this site went away) I will be sure to show potential recruits and customers of Mary Kay how you have been such a sweet helpful person and represented Mary Kay with the utmost professionalism. Gosh MKForever, if you are this filled with anger, bitterness and venom now, can you just imagine how you will feel the day you finally realized you have been duped by a cult? Know that I will be putting in special prayers for you because I do not have to know you, but God does. Have a great day, ok?

• Duh
  Aug 17, 2007 at 5:04 pm

  And you think I’m nutty? How much time do you think My My MY spent on her above response?

  Howdy Tracy!

• Everybody say hello to Sean! « Banned from the Bitchfest: Pink Truth Can Bite My Ass
  Aug 17, 2007 at 5:12 pm

  […] http://www.franchisepick.com/does-pink-stink-or-is-mary-kay-ok/#comment-8368 […]

• my my my
  Aug 17, 2007 at 5:24 pm

  Duh: You are wrong. I am not Tracy. Have the admin verify it. I’m sure he can. Why would how much time I spend on a post concern you?

• Duh
  Aug 17, 2007 at 5:25 pm

  That’s just what Tracy would say…

• sean
  Aug 17, 2007 at 5:31 pm

  …And you think I’m nutty? How much time do you think My My MY spent on her above response?
  DUH: Oh, you’re nutty all right. But you got plenty of company in this group.

• sean
  Aug 17, 2007 at 5:32 pm

  …And I’m not Tracy either…

• Duh
  Aug 17, 2007 at 5:44 pm

  Yeah, that’s JUST what Tracy would say….

• MKForever
  Aug 17, 2007 at 5:55 pm

  my my my:
  I’m sorry if I upset you. I was trying to be positive and offer some helpful advice. I was once a negative thinker too. It’s a real trap and you don’t know you’re in it at the time. If you don’t believe me, print out these comments. Ask some impartial person to read yours and mine and tell you which is the angry, venomous person. See what they say.
  I will pray for you. I believe in you. If you invest the same energy you put into your last comment into yourself, there’s no limit to your potential!
  I just read a great post at MKRules! about the power of being a cheerleader for others.
  Try cheering someone on instead of commiserating, and you’ll start feeling your confidence and power grow. There will be no stopping you! I know, I’ve been where you’re at!
  think pink!

  GREAT article from MKRules:
  http://mkrules.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/be-the-cheerleader/#more-558

• Me
  Aug 17, 2007 at 6:54 pm

  Darn, my my my–you just missed the PT card challenge on my blog! You said you were going to go “make my way over to Pink Truth after I post to order some of their Pink Truth cards.” (sigh) If you had only done so a week or so ago, you could really have racked up!! We were all offering things to anyone who send me a bona fide PT card to prove that people actually bought them!

  You know that Tracy Coenen gets a kickback from all those shopping links, don’t you? Well, offering the challenge was my way of doing two things: first, to prove that the people who support Tracy Coenen are not liars–you know they all SAY they have those cards, but has anyone actually SEEN one? (Answer: no). And the other things to let Tracy’s little supporters get something in return for their blind faith in her. Something they would never get from HER.

  But…well, no one sent me one. No one. Zip. Nada.

  Sean, thanks for letting me post here–nice place you have. If you would like to visit my site, do so, and click on the “Tracy Coenen” tag. Interesting reading.

• PC
  Aug 17, 2007 at 9:15 pm

  Mary Kay sucks and it’s a bigass scam, waste of time, blah blah blah

  BUT…Tracy is a fraud too. But at least she’s making money off her site, which is more than most MK ladies can say. LOL

  And My My My: if you ain’t Tracy, then you must be PUR.
  :)

• Willie Lump Lump
  Aug 17, 2007 at 9:47 pm

  “It’s been a great exchange with you MKForever and as your words will live forever now (because I’ll have a screenshot even if this site went away) I will be sure to show potential recruits and customers of Mary Kay how you have been such a sweet helpful person and represented Mary Kay with the utmost professionalism. ”

  Yup! That’s Tracy! MKForever, check the Pink Truth website in a couple days and you’ll see a brand spanking new article all about YOU. Ready for your 5 minutes of fame in pink truth hell? LOL

• sean
  Aug 18, 2007 at 4:56 am

  PT Bashers: Do you have any actual, legitimate, verifiable complaints against PT and/or Tracy that normal people might view as significant, noteworthy or even interesting… or is this just a personal girl-on-girl catfight… a make-up party gone horribly wrong? (Not that there’s anything wrong with that)
  I hope you’re not contending that PTs insidious plot is to score big selling $20 PT cards through Vistaprint, raking in, say, $4 - $8 per sale. Plus, what’s wrong with trying to make money? That’s what brought you all together in the first place, right?

• my my my
  Aug 18, 2007 at 5:07 am

  No I am not PUR (whatever that is).

• my my my
  Aug 18, 2007 at 5:18 am

  Lump Lump Lump: I have already asked that the admin verify I am not Tracy and it can be done I’m sure. What in the world is wrong with some of you people? Did you people actually READ my posts? Do people not go to Pink Truth to read and get information? I will have to look for MKForever over there so I can read about her. Is every person who visits this place someone involved with Pink Truth or a rival place? You have to establish a loyalty? You cannot read and post where you choose? That sounds much like the Mary Kay mentality that I have seen.

  Me: I would loved to have known about your challange. Unfortunately, I did not. I also would have been interested in going to your site to read if you had not been so rude. No interest now. Why would I care if the owner of Pink Truth makes money off of any advertising links? I do not use those links and could care less. Mary Kay makes quite a bit more money from people by drawing them into something that ends up hurting the families.

  MKForever: LOL comic relief for me so early in the morning.

• FranchisePick.Com to Appear on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
  Aug 18, 2007 at 5:37 am

  […] Kay Posts & Discussions on FranchisePick.Com Does Pink Stink or is Mary Kay O.K.? Is Mary Kay Cosmetics a “Cult of Greed”? Ex-Mary Kay Consultant Shares Her Experience […]

• Willie Lump Lump
  Aug 18, 2007 at 7:02 am

  “You have to establish a loyalty? You cannot read and post where you choose? That sounds much like the Mary Kay mentality that I have seen.”

  Sean, the above quote is one of many legitimate complaints on Tracy, owner of Pink Truth. Check out http://www.PTLies.com for more information on the fraudulent tracy.

• Me
  Aug 18, 2007 at 7:14 am

  Nothing wrong with making money. It’s manipulation to make money that gets my back up. Much too involve to go into in a comment here, but as I invited Sean to do, please visit my site, click on the category “Tracy Coenen” and see what comes up. My my my, I do not recall inviting you to do so, so if you have no interest…so what.

  PTLies also has a category related to Tracy and there is interesting reading there as well.

  Sean, it’s WAY more than a makeup party gone bad. Tracy allegedly (have to put that in there so she won’t threaten to sue me again) is being investigated by the FBI, allegedly did illegal background checks on people including me, violates copyright laws, and is just downright mean, paranoid, and manipulative (allegedly).

• Willie Lump Lump
  Aug 18, 2007 at 7:37 am

  Mary Kay & Pink Truth: Eerie Similarities http://ptlies.com/?p=90

  Mary Kay & Pink Truth: Eerie Similarity Number 2
  http://ptlies.com/?p=91

  Fake It ‘Til You Make It: Eerie Similarity Number 3
  http://ptlies.com/index.php?paged=5

  Tracy and the IIA (Part 1)
  http://ptlies.com/?p=94

  Tracy and the IIA (Part 2)
  http://ptlies.com/?p=95

  For Pink Truth, Imitation is the Sincerest Form of Flattery.
  ptlies.com/?p=72

  Stalking Melissa
  http://ptlies.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/stalking-melissa/

  Tracy Throws Down A Challenge
  http://ptlies.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/tracy-throws-down-a-challenge/

  Tracy Throws Down A Challenge (Part 2)
  http://ptlies.com/?p=51

  Banned from PT? Enter and sign in please!
  http://ptlies.wordpress.com/2007/05/22/banned-from-pt-enter-and-sign-in-please/

  Our Motivation…..
  http://ptlies.com/?p=153

  The Tracy Coenen Soap Opera….Episode 1
  http://ptlies.com/?p=124

  Blood In The Water: A Note From a ptlies Reader
  http://ptlies.com/?p=121

• LOL
  Aug 18, 2007 at 9:20 am

  My My Mym maybe you should have made sure you changed your name from the name you use when you post on Duh, aka Willie Lump, Lump .

  Don’t give up your day job, undercover work might not be suited for you. Anyone reading Duh know about ME’s challenge.

  And you also know what a PUR is, don’t you??

• LOL
  Aug 18, 2007 at 9:22 am

  Sorry, WLL, misread stuff. oops.

• sean
  Aug 18, 2007 at 10:17 am

  Tracy allegedly (have to put that in there so she won’t threaten to sue me again) is being investigated by the FBI…
  Big deal. So was Martin Luther King, Elvis, Albert Einstein and the writer of the song “Louie Louie.” Being investigated doesn’t mean being guilty. Are you a communiss? Or one of them outside agitators? Allegedly being investigated means even less.
  But in fairness… I will visit PTlies after my post traumatic stress therapy session this afternoon (caused by viewing the WMBs on the Duh site). But I’ve seen nothing about PT or Tracy that explains why she’s got all of your mascara in a clump. She’s done more to get the MK story out than anyone, right? Doesn’t she deserve some credit for that?

  BTW… Where’s the Anti-Duh site one of you slackers is supposed to build? No one’s heard of Blogger around here?

• Willie Lump Lump
  Aug 18, 2007 at 11:15 am

  “She’s done more to get the MK story out than anyone, right? Doesn’t she deserve some credit for that?”

  See Sean, that’s another complaint about Tracy. She wants everyone to THINK she’s done more than anyone to get the MK story out, but it’s simply not true. It’s an illusion. She wants to be the ‘Queen’ of all anti-mk, which is why she doesn’t link to any of the other anti-mk blogs and there are many. She even uses ‘queen’ as her title on her board. If her whole motive is to get the MK story out, why not link other sources who have the same motive? Over half the ideas and material on Pink Truth were stolen from her former allies and supporters and now that she got what she wanted out of them, it’s ‘every woman for themselves’(her own words). Does that sound like someone who’s only motive is to get the story out? No, sounds like a controlling bitch who wants to start her own cult by bashing another cult, MK.

  And who does background checks on their posters and expose personal information, but a controlling nosy bitch hiding behind a ’cause’ anyway?

  Take it from someone who was once an avid Pink Truth supporter. I’ve been around since before the birth of Pink Truth and have seen how things transpired over the last year. I trully believed and admired Tracy for her work on Pink Truth, but as time went on, her true colors started to shine through and soon she became very controlling. People couldn’t visit other anti-mk blogs without getting banned from Pink Truth. If you didn’t agree with the mass opinion on Pink Truth, you were banned. Ridiculous!

• sean
  Aug 18, 2007 at 11:45 am

  I’ve only done background checks on one of our commenters (Duh) and that was only to determine if she’s dangerous.

  WLL: I did think it odd that there was no link list. What does she have to gain by cornering the market on anti-MK sentiment? I’ve seen a lot of sites that pretend to be consumer advocacy site but are really pushing their own crooked program (MLM watchdog sites that bash others, but recommend one: theirs). But that doesn’t seem to be the case here. Is there money in criticizing Mary Kay?

  Note: It’s our policy to allow any company or person discussed on this site a chance to rebut comments or clarify the issues. Anyone can request a guest post by emailing me at info[at]ideafarm.net. Sean

• Willie Lump Lump
  Aug 18, 2007 at 11:54 am

  I don’t think it’s about money for her (although she did have threads up asking people to click her google ads and donate money to her pay pal account, but was recently deleted from some strange reason, LOL). It’s about fame and control. There are so many similiarities between PT and MK, it’s ridiculous.

• Willie Lump Lump
  Aug 18, 2007 at 11:57 am

  and have you seen her cafe press store of overpriced pink truth merchandise? LOL

• sean
  Aug 18, 2007 at 12:26 pm

  …she did have threads up asking people to click her google ads…
  That will get you banned from the Google Adsense program for life. Maybe that’s why there are no Google ads up. Did you rat her out to Google, Willie?

• MKBiz
  Aug 18, 2007 at 12:28 pm

  One of the things many people question are TC motives as she has decided to take up a cause when she herself didn’t personally experience horrible situations during her 5 year (??) stay with MK. My statement can be rebuffed, however, if she as intelligent as she appears to be (and I do feel she is a very smart individual, if things were so bad, it wouldn’t have taken her 5 years to figure this out.

  I don’t know her personally so this is only my opinion but from reading her history she may have wanted to have been a director or National and it didn’t work for her. Moving up in an venue such as MK has much to do with building personal relationships and being able to treat others with respect and decency and truly caring. One can be very smart and skilled and yet have no people skills and dispite knowledge not succeed and respect is earned not demanded.

  As far as why is she doing this, she has made a name for herself and she is making money off her blog, none of the other blogs that have been listed in this post are profitting from this. At one time on PT, there was even a tip jar and it was encouraged that everyone contribute because of all her time and efforts she puts into the site and a welcome letter telling everyone to use the shopping links on her site. (the letter has been removed). Her complaint is MK makes money off its independent contracts, yet I have not ever heard of her sharing her profits with any of the people that write posts for her and assist her. They contribute their time and efforts because they truly believe in what they are doing.

  With the time and energy shown on PT, it would be great to see these efforts extended on a cause where they really could make a difference. (Cancer research, starving children, aids research, homeless, etc..)

  Whether people want to view MK as a business or not is not my point but when one ventures into any small business, their is a risk. It is a personal choice to take the chances on whether it is worth the blood, sweat, and tears to get a business up and running. In Mary Kay a buyback is offered, start your own small business and have it not work out, you are out your money. One of the other big issues, medical insurance- well any small business owner makes that choice to do without a Company’s benefits if you want security then do not opt to be self-employed. When you sign up you know that there is no emplyee benefit package so why after you join do you think it is unfair that it is not offered.

  There is no get rich quick scheme (legal) - if there was we would all be rich. If someone really thinks they can make 6 digits working a couple hours a week by starting to sell anything, whether in a mlm, a small business, or a corporation, then they have lived a very sheltered life or are motivated by greed.

  There are good and bad people everywhere in all aspects of life, their are people of power that will take advantage of others, these individuals are not exclusively in MK, they are every where and as adults living in our country with freedom of choice, it is too bad that more individuals can not accept responsilities for poor choices they have made without looking for a scapegoat.

  For every “un” success story in Mary Kay there are many success stories and many of success stories have done things honestly and ethically and I am sure there are some that have made it dishonestly, but TC chant is “if you are successfuly, you have used and abused people, otherwise you wouldn’t have been able to succeed.” - That would not be correct any more than all pters are lazy looser. (and I am sure there may be a few that were but I am sure it wasn’t the majority).

• MKBiz
  Aug 18, 2007 at 12:31 pm

  WLL didn’t rat her out but one of the threads on one of the blogs did go over the fact it was against policy, within days the letter was gone. It had existed for the better part of a year. (Coincidence?)

  Bet if you asked, Duh could get you a screenshot of it.

• FYI
  Aug 18, 2007 at 12:53 pm

  google ads are on her discussion board.

• MKForever
  Aug 18, 2007 at 1:16 pm

  For every “un” success story in Mary Kay there are many success stories and many of success stories have done things honestly and ethically…
  MKBiz: Your comments are very wise and truthful.

• MKBiz
  Aug 18, 2007 at 1:18 pm

  Ooops, sorry Sean, very new to this blogging stuff, started to write to you but looks like I put your name in the spot for my name, please fix for me. My apologies and maybe I should just not venture into this blogging world may be too dangerous for me. (Two goofs in one day is plenty)

• sean
  Aug 18, 2007 at 1:31 pm

  (Two goofs in one day is plenty)
  I get two blunders in before 8 am. Fixed’m both, so goof away.

• Duh
  Aug 18, 2007 at 3:53 pm

  What came up in your background check on me Sean? I hope you didn’t find that crack bust back in ‘82. I’d be crushed if that bit of info got out, ya know?

  BTW, were you ever a mime?

• sean
  Aug 18, 2007 at 4:23 pm

  BTW, were you ever a mime?
  Can’t say…

• Duh
  Aug 18, 2007 at 5:13 pm

  Can’t or won’t? You see, I’ve been doing a little checking too.

  Busking performances can be just about anything that people find entertaining. Buskers may do: musical performance, clowning, comedy, improvisation, balloon modelling, dance, acrobatics, contortions and escapes, juggling, magic, fire eating, sword swallowing, snake charming, fortune-telling, present a flea circus, street theatre, street art (sketching and painting, etc.), puppeteering, storytelling or recite poetry or prose as a bard, or do mime or a mime variation where the performer stands still as a living statue.

  So tell us Sean. We want the truth!

• sean
  Aug 18, 2007 at 7:08 pm

  DUH:
  This is about Mary Kay, not my sordid past. You don’t want to know about my WMB days…
  MKBiz stated: …I have shown a profit from my second year in business, driven free for 12 years and have moved (to buying clients over $400,000 of product myself. I do carry approximately $8000 wholesale because of my customer base approx 500… and… No debt…
  If she could do it, why couldn’t you? I think you and your gal pals were listening to too much Heavy Metal when you should have been moving product. Am I wrong…?

• Sean has made me famous. « Banned from the Bitchfest: Pink Truth Can Bite My Ass
  Aug 19, 2007 at 12:17 pm

  […] see any of the MK people who were asked questions or confronted there giving any solid answers “click here” (I hope I’m allowed to do that) and that one person named “Duh” just seems very […]

• Laura R
  Aug 30, 2007 at 4:36 am

  Berry said: “About how I watched my director use inactive consultant’s names buy product, fudge over customers orders, ‘miscount’ the money, etc, etc, etc.”

  MKForever, did you miss this part? I see you didn’t comment on it - moreso, you ripped Berry apart without addressing her first hand experience with deceit commonly found in MK and other MLM’s by uplines. Sure, all companies have their dirty employees and I am sure there are blogs about them - this is about MK.

  I can attest that I saw the same things in Mary Kay. How dare you dismiss this and guilt out this person for sharing what they experienced. As a “positive” person who loves success, you should be mortified that this happens in Mary Kay and that many, many, many of the directors remaining in MK practice (and teach thru their own example) to cheat on an on-going basis.

  Your condescension without compassion for someone truly scammed by an evildoer in MK is why anti-MK sites exist; someone needs to help these women out of the pit of guilt and remorse so they can move on with their lives after dusting off their feet.

  Sean, about Tracy/PT - She is a great organizer and a good writer and knows how to market herself, but the content of her site is basically a compilation of ideas she’s gathered around the net from places which existed before hers.

  Without others the PT site would not be what it is and it’s really sad that she’s chosen (now that she’s copied everyone elses mission) to view this as “every woman for herself”.

  Don’t dismiss what is being said about her. Members of the Pink Truth community have a stranglehold over them which they are very unaware of (until they break a PT rule).

  Don’t dismiss what others say about their experience with her. More and more, because of her control issues, I feel recovery from a relationship with her is no different than recovery from abusive, unethical people in MK. In my opinion (and observation) she has used and turned on many former MK women. Now, those women have to endure yet another recovery process.

  As a warning to others, if you go to Pink Truth to get info, share your experience, etc., that’s fine BUT:

  1) Never send a Private Message on the bulletin board (she can view and does view those messages).

  2) Never give her any real, personal information about yourself or your trust.

  3) Be careful in Chat - she’s watching.

• MKForever
  Aug 30, 2007 at 5:52 am

  Yes, Berry deserves our compassion. Berry said: …quit my job two weeks before I signed up for MK…behind my family’s back… I borrowed $7K from my stepdad promising to pay it alllll back in a year or less! I spent $3k+ my first order, then signed up for seminar… I ditched out a few times on the meetings claiming I was sick when I was bored…
  Yes, she’s a pillar of ethics. She borrows $7K she’ll never pay back and she doesn’t even stay for the meeting.
  …Meanwhile I was charging my mom’s credit card to that special paypal like account so I could pay my rent and cellphone bill…I tried selling my product to customers for 50% off to get rent money. I hadn’t paid my credit cards in two months. I couldnt pay my cellphone bill that month… Asked the church to give me money for medicine.
  Running up mother’s credit cards, begging the church. Too bad she missed the part of the seminar about not discounting and devaluing the product. But that part wasn’t entertaining enough for her.

  I had no rent money. Beginning of January, [my director] asked me to stay at her house to make sure her kids got out to school every day… I said no, she got mad and yelled at me for being a lazy a** bum who can’t do anything for herself.
  Pretty unreasonable request for free rent. How dare she! I’m sure she found a relative’s credit card to cash-advance her rent. She IS resourceful.

  …I’m in $10k worth of debt because of Mary Kay. I was out of work for over a year because no one would hire me having not worked in so long. I had been brainwashed and pinkified…
  Poor Berry. She’s the victim of injustice. It’s MKs fault, her Director’s fault, the women at the seminar’s fault, the director’s husbands fault…

  By letting this poor, misguided, amoral and deluded girl refuse to take responsibility for her own actions, you’re doing more harm to her than any MK “evildoer” ever could.

• sean
  Aug 30, 2007 at 6:14 am

  Laura R
  Without others the PT site would not be what it is…What a lot of people miss is that blogging is thrives through collaboration, cooperation & linking. This site is linked to over 200 other sites in a co-op fashion. You’ll see lots of cross-posting between us and sites others might see as competitors. So PT is hurting itself by not being cooperative with other sites.
  That being said, if Tracy and PT hadn’t come along, that material would still be spread around, mostly unread and lots more women would have gone unwarned. Correct?

• sean
  Aug 30, 2007 at 6:18 am

  Laura R said I feel recovery from a relationship with [Tracy of PT] is no different than recovery from abusive, unethical people in MK… those women have to endure yet another recovery process.
  Not to be mean, but don’t you think that any woman who must “recover” from a relationship with a website moderator after having to “recover” from Mary Kay have bigger issues in their lives they should be addressing? Isn’t part of the problem that some people are expecting to fill the big hole in their self esteem with a makeup sales program or an anti-MK website? I know this sounds insensitive, but shouldn’t some of these people just [here it comes…] get a life?

• Laura R
  Aug 30, 2007 at 6:53 pm

  MKForever, all I said was you ignored the issue of a crooked director in MK, which is more common than you think. And, you also missed the parts where she DID take responsibility (remorse for quitting her job, etc). If you read the story carefully, you can understand how much her decisions were influenced by someone she obviously respected in the beginning.

  We are “coached” to borrow from anyone including ex-boyfriends! We are encouraged to quit our jobs so we have more time to do MK. We are encouraged (by some directors) to “hide” our MK purchases and use other’s credit cards. I’ve heard it all over the years and her story doesn’t shock me as much as it does you. It sounds pretty familiar.

  The director is to blame somewhat. Someone in the role of a mentor, teacher and MK director should never have given the gal ideas to quit her job, borrow money or anything else until she developed a customer base to sell to.

• Laura R
  Aug 30, 2007 at 7:10 pm

  PT is highly visible and yes, more people are warned as a result and that’s a good thing, you are correct.

  Other sites do link to Pink Truth although she does not reciprocate the favor.

  What I meant when I said “without others, the PT site wouldn’t be what it is” - I am talking about initial traffic, organization and content.

• Laura R
  Aug 30, 2007 at 7:34 pm

  Sean said: Not to be mean, but don’t you think that any woman who must “recover” from a relationship with a website moderator after having to “recover” from Mary Kay have bigger issues in their lives they should be addressing?

  Actually, no. A natural need of every human being is relationship. When we meet someone new or venture into a new opportunity (for whatever reason) and find ourselves betrayed, belittled, sabotaged and burned by someone who initially misrepresented themselves, I think it’s pretty normal to have a period of recovery to get over the loss of that relationship and whatever else was left in the wake of the division.

• MKBiz
  Aug 30, 2007 at 10:04 pm

  Earlier in this thread Neutral Ground asked, why did pro-mkers go for the jugular, why not just tell a success story, not even a scensational one but a pretty typical one. Wow, she didn’t even take the time to say, thank you. I know I didn’t post my Schedule C for her to dissect but I can attest that it was way more than the $25,000 that PT says is all a Grand Prix director can earn. But enter into their numbers figures for selling the product up to $40,000 a year to real clents (yes some of us have real clients and hold skin care classes and facials) and you can earn a very comfortable income. I promise, soon as I earn the six figures - Sean -
  you will have the first exclusive, deal?

• MKBiz
  Aug 30, 2007 at 10:30 pm

  Quote from Sean:
  Sean said: Not to be mean, but don’t you think that any woman who must “recover” from a relationship with a website moderator after having to “recover” from Mary Kay have bigger issues in their lives they should be addressing?

  Boy did you call that one right, first they need recover from Mary Kay, (let’s get a teacher group going or an ex-nurse support group going to help them recover) These people paid thousands of $$ and hours for these careers, if once they got in it wasn’t what they expected, they get out and move on. They had expenses, they had school loans, these ladies just must be stronger realizing that the career they thought was for them wasn’t and they simply moved on. The don’t make fun of other nurses that remain or other teachers that remain, it becomes a closed chapter in the life. Nothing heals if you keep picking the scab of the wound. Not only doesn’t it heal, it can even get infected and fester and oooze gooey yuck all over the place. But a little antibiotic cream and a bandaid and a little time will heal things quite nicely.

  Our poor soldiers coming back from the war needs deprogrammings, a consultant tha failed in MK be it with a good director or a bad director needs to accept your responsility for it and realize you have learned some lessons and move on. You don’t jump out of the fire pan into the fire and that is what many of these co-dependent type individuals appear to be doing.

  COMMON SENSE: Can’t afford to buy the product, haven’t sold any of the product, well, DUH>> don’t order more so you can win a $10 ring, if you need & want the recognition and the ring that bad - there are needs sorely lacking in your life aqnd you are trying to fill these voids with MK recognition. Talk to a marriage counselor or therapist.

  As for unethical directors, they do exist. Bad people exist everywhere. Don’t whine and blog about it on line, document the wrong doing, get it notarized and send it to Corporate. When they receive official written complaints, they do take action, but if noone ever takes the time to put it in writing so Corp can compile and establish a pattern, nothing gets corrected. The Power to improve Mary Kay will come from strong ethical people within Mary Kay”.
  Not from a person that has now stirred more pots than Betty Crocker. And IMHO as long as she continues to bribe and encourage peopel who supposedly are already broke to spend money on her links and buy her pinktruth business cards, and buy her appareal, knowing none of these expenditures assist these ladies in earning an income, she is FAR WORSE THAN ANYTHING SHE CAN SAY ABOUT MARY KAY CO. Everything I have seen listed as a complaint they had about Mary Kay, it has been replicated on the very site they are trying to use to “recover”.

  Hey why don’t we go out and buy the alcoholic, a 6 pack of beer, ..well, at least it is hard liquer, righ??
  See, doesn’t work.

  Ladies run from PT, accept the fact that MK didn’t work for you, may not have been your fault, may have been your fault, who cares?? Just go find something you enjoy doing and be happy.

• sean
  Aug 31, 2007 at 7:17 am

  MKBiz said:I know I didn’t post my Schedule C for her to dissect but I can attest that it was way more than the $25,000 that PT says is all a Grand Prix director can earn…. I promise, soon as I earn the six figures - Sean - you will have the first exclusive, deal?
  MKBiz: You make some good points. I’m not sure I’ll be around long enough to post your six figure Schedule C (I hear the Pink Hit Squad may have a contract out on me. I may have to go into hiding at a Tupperware safe house)
  However, if you provide me with documentation and/or detailed breakdown of how much you actually make as a Grand Prix director, I’ll be happy to post it as provided. There have been so many generalities bandied about, your (actual sales/expenses) numbers would provide some substance to the debate. We’ll keep your identity confidential.

• sean
  Aug 31, 2007 at 9:39 am

  Laura R
  It seems to me that MK casts the net pretty wide and pulls in both needy women who don’t have a chance as well as a small percentage who do have the drive and sales ability to make money from the system. Those who never had a chance leave disillusioned and at a financial loss. The ones who were emotionally needy end up commiserating on sites like PT, where they, according to some, trade their dependence on MK for emotional dependence on PT.

  Accurate summary?

• Anonymus Coward
  Sep 5, 2007 at 10:04 am

  Sean - MK is not a franchise. Mary Kay is a MLM that rewards recruiting, not sales to those not in the MLM. The prizes, trips and bonuses go to those who recruit and convince the recruits to order product. That leads to recruiting people who don’t have a chance, just to pull the inventory order from them, pocket the bonus and let them sink or swim.

  When they sink, the successful MLMer says, “You didn’t do it right” and goes on to the next one.

• Duh
  Sep 21, 2007 at 1:44 pm

  Hi Sean! Long time no see! I posted a pic today, and I don’t know why, but it made me think of you. As I was putting it up I thought, “You know who would LOVE this picture… Sean.” Anyway, go check it out.

  MUAH!

• Jessica
  Oct 3, 2007 at 3:17 pm

  I sell Mary Kay. I know that some women who sell the stuff can be very pushy.

  I am not like that. I am not pushy. I sell the makeup, I don’t preach about the company and get people to join unless they show intrest first. I have been doing Mary Kay for about a year and enjoy it. I don’t make much money because I don’t put too much effort into it. I have a job and go to college for Business. Running my own business is a great experience.

  Selling Mary kay is not for everyone, some people don’t know how to run their own business, they shouldn’t do it then.

  Don’t be haters.

  We are all individuals and we all run our businesses differently. We aren’t all what you say we are. We aren’t all pushy old ladies trying to recruit all of our customers.

• Danielle
  Oct 14, 2007 at 8:13 pm

  I was in Mary Kay for 5 years and I tried everything…I went to all the meetings, I had a huge invent